Policy Change Regarding Boxes and Bidding (Cap)

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Postby chawpchawp » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:07 pm

with the dkp set up the way it is now, getting 1 dkp per hour raiding, i think it would be crazy to try to state that a certain item was worth 70 hours or more of raid time...now if someone wants to spend that much on something, more power to em lol.
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Postby Drigarx » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:43 pm

The amount of points is irrelevant. It was just thrown out there as an example. If the current system works and everyone is happy then I agree there should be no overhauling done. To me these are all new things to me is why I bring them up and try to figure them out(ie. dkp bids, if 2 bids are same etc etc) It doesn't mean I'm upset or mad, its just trying to figure things out.
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amen

Postby bill » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:10 am

I like to see ppl figuring things out ;)

It makes more informed peeps, and informed peeps help the structure of our guild.
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Postby Yoshikawa » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:07 pm

Heh remember that year when Bilnick was the only pally in guild and got like 300,000 weps for 1 dkp?

same thing happens when Isenhart does VT, i think hes the only monk with access, and i cant justify doing the VT key for the one item i want from there.

on the note of Boxes recieving DKP and bidding on loot, if they contribute to the raid give them normal DKP, otherwise they should recieve a diminished amount. as for boxes out bidding mains, i agree about placing a cap on the amounts they should be able to bid, thus allowing our mains the opportunity to gear themselves which will help us in the long run.
Last edited by Yoshikawa on Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Serano » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:12 pm

muhaa haa -- Zyzzer has both the shrink bracer AND the invis mask from VT. TF has beat EQ.
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Postby Meso » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:24 pm

the invis mask is cool. even if it does have a 15 sec cast time.
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Postby Rule » Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:29 am

I need illusions!
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Postby Azzenkar Emberune » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:13 pm

Couple of things on my mind about this thread.

First: considering our officers which one of em do ya think is gonna really sit down and figure out what the bid price of items should be? Do you really expect the officers to come up with a chart or something listing EVERY ITEM THAT COULD POSSIBLY DROP AT EVERY MOB WE MIGHT KILL? Somehow i dont see that happening...the sheer amount of work boggles the mind. Tribal Fury has (except for the mindboggling need to come up with a rule for everything imaginable) operated by the KISS principle( Keep It Simple Stupid) whenever possible.

Second: how does playing a alt toon who is not boxed work into this? Its not your main, so in my opinion should not get equal treatment as one. Yet its not boxed so you have complete attention to JUST THAT ONE toon while playing. One failure of boxed toons is the lag time caused by multitasking. Both main and box suffer from boxing.

The issue of alts raiding is prolly another whole can o worms. I can see a lotta real problems with it on all sides of the issue. Hmmm the more I think on this the more I need to think on this. Yup whole nother can o worms best left untouched.
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Postby Serano » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:43 pm

very perceptive azzenkar.

to address the first point - I didn't like assigned loot value for a similar reason - but there are actually lists on other peeps dkp charts that can be used in a pinch to start off - but that isn't the current direction - so not going to worry about set values.

to address alts... after the smoke clears on this - we are going to be bringing up alts and raids shortly - it is possibly going to be a departure from what a lot of peeps are expecting - and due to the nature of the issue it will prolly be warrented guild input vs us just deciding that one - but we will see.
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Postby Ceruis » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:24 pm

Second: how does playing a alt toon who is not boxed work into this? Its not your main, so in my opinion should not get equal treatment as one. Yet its not boxed so you have complete attention to JUST THAT ONE toon while playing. One failure of boxed toons is the lag time caused by multitasking. Both main and box suffer from boxing.


I agree, alts don't deserve equal treatment if they are being boxed. I know some boxes perform needed tasks during the raid, but there is still just one of player behind the keyboard. If I'm right, DKP is earned by the player and the player is still one player no matter how many toons he's "playing" at a given moment. Just my 2 cents.

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aye

Postby bill » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:13 pm

Basically it is going to come down to alts and boxes falling under the same bidding cap and as always boxing without RL consent only garners 1dkp/hour whether it is 1 toon or 10.

Which will require ppl to declare a main and then there will need to be a harder process for moving DKP.

Right now as it stands, we only allow 1 move of DKP per player. But we have in the past allowed a person to move DKP from toon #1, then when going to toon #3, we allowed only the amount moved from #1 to #2 to be moved from #2 to #3.

That new policy regarding alts at raids (or your box without any other toons making it your only toon present) would mean that Waystin would fall under the bidding cap as he is not my main.

But I still wanted to keep the cap high because alts help us when we really need them. Same for boxes.
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Postby Ceruis » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:34 pm

I don't think there should be any dkp or bidding cap on alts. What I was saying is if you are boxing another charater during the raid, then the box should not be rewarded with DKP and/or looting rights. However, if you are playing your alt for that raid then you should have all rights to bid on loot and collect dkp like the mains. In fact, the only thing the main/alt designator should be used for is on the guild roster so everyone knows who playing who.

So in a nutshell, if your playing a toon during a raid, you get rewarded dkp and bidding rights like everyone else. If you are boxing another toon, then the boxed toon gets nothing and no looting rights. Player boxing designates his box at the beginning of the raid to an officer so there is no confusion on whats what.

Again, just my 2cents.
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hmm

Postby bill » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:38 pm

Well, to use you as a specific example if I may.

Raiding 60 times with Tarvas when Ceruis is a much stronger asset is hurting us.

Then you outbid a ranger on something really valuable for 60dkp.

Then you go back to Ceruis and that 60dkp sits there not doing the guild any good.

A cap of 50dkp is damn high. 50 hours. How much loot goes for over 50?

Now consider alt's that get 33%-max 50% playtime getting loot that goes for more than 50.

I see your point about not capping and that is essentially the opposing point. However, we have WAAAAAY too much loot going to 2-5 characters per person and it is contributing to how slowly we progress because instead of gearing up 1 raid force, we are gearing up 2-5.

Catch my drift?
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Postby Serano » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:43 pm

If you box someone elses char - you earn the DKP for that raid on your main so long as you tell an officer what is going on.

SO far as ALTS -- that is another thread - we havn't started yet. This thread will discuss boxes - which will go in effect shortly it appears - the discussion on alts is forthcomming - but we are waiting until we set the box rule in ink (stone? Digits?)

After the discussion on boxes is complete ( no one else has interest in posting negatives about box caps with an argument that sways us) we will start a new thread about alts - and that discussion is likely to be more "popular" than this one.
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aye

Postby bill » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:06 pm

After the discussion on boxes is complete


This discussion will have been up for a week tomorrow with no substantial reason to avoid implementation. Unless I missed it in which case someone feel free to toss it in front of my face again.

I would have liked to have implemented this before tonight but I want to give an even week of discussion.

In preparation for Thursday's raids, this may be in effect. Wednesday is the latest I will take rational debating.
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