DKP Tracked per Player or by Character?

[bill]

Points can not be passed from alts to mains or Vise Versa. At the begining of this plan a player could do a one time permanant move of points they have on an alt or on an old main since this is a new policy. This would be a grandfather clause for peeps like Jumjam who has accumulated points on Daioe under the old system's precursor - double grandfather if you will. That is just an example. Thus, hensforth if a player choses to raid with an alt - they can only bid on points earned from that toon.

This would remove whether or not an alt can bid. This would remove alts bidding versus mains because all toons have accumulated their points specifically.

This also means a character can never spend more DKP than they have earned.

[Ranjaling]

I voted by character because so many people 2box raids they would aquire insane amounts of dkp points if combined that those who either can't or choose not to 2box raids would stand no chance on many lewts, especially droppable ones.

People who had combined assloads of dkps would burn points more often for twinks or bazaaring and casual raiders would potentially lose chances at upgrades. I think keeping them seperate makes people spend their points more wisely and makes it more balanced overall.

[Vikk]

I thought alts didn't get DKP or was that just for EMP/VT key?

[bill]

Ranja that's some good input there.

Current policy regarding boxes at raids is that unless the Raid Leader requests the presence of a boxed toon on a raid, that boxed toon gets no DKP.

This change in policy would only affect this to the extent that the person who is boxing can't use points from a needed box on an alt for example which I agree isn't productive for the guild overall.

If the box is needed enough to earn DKP, then they are needed enough to afford awarding an upgrade here and there to said box.

EDIT
Alts do not get DKP for emp key or VT key, those are one-time PLAYER bonuses.

Also an interesting point Vikk brings up, this policy may warrant a change in future special DKP awards. Or it may not, but it will be considered. Thanks Vikk.

[Ayragon]

alts can get DKP, but not 2 box'ed alts, unless requested.

[Ranjaling]

I thought alts didn't get DKP or was that just for EMP/VT key?

Oh? I dunno.. If they don't, I think they should but I think they should be kept seperated. If someone is boxing 2 charas on a raid then both toons are contributing and should seperately earn DKP IMO.

[bill]

damn you guys are fast, read my post regarding alts and DKP.

Let me give a quick breakdown:

Mains get DKP.
Alts get DKP. Right now, it is all basically tracked by toon but spendable by player.

If you Xbox, only your main gets DKP. Each additional toon boxed is only awarded DKP if they are critical to the success of the raid.

But in regards to the Emp key and VT key special awards, those are one time per person regardless of how many toons are keyed/flagged.

[Ranjaling]

I'm just blowing smoke and not saying anything is wrong with that system because DKP system is $$.

Much better than RoK was where officers simply used to link item and say "/tell me if interested... ok lewt goes to "Jackmeoff Asskisser"... congrats". I loved the guild people but the lewt system was horrible and officers would at times award themselves or their favorite buds and give no explanation why.

I just don't agree with the "no dkp" for alts. On all accounts the alt is either contributing or doing the work that everybody else is and should be included in the points, even on keys. If Drannor and Waystin both spent the time farming EMP/VT keys then they should both have the 5dkp to show for it so long as they meet the deadline on the points being awarded.

DKP for both toons boxed on raids provides incentive which will = more numbers which will = faster plows/kills which will = potentially more targets in the same raid night.

It also helps alt toons bank up their own points so in case that alt ever became someones main (lord knows that never happens.. lol. Ranjaling was an alt at one time) then at least they would have a small pool of dkp built up to help them along should they decide to switch.

Of course this is all just opinion, I'm a TF newb and even though I used to and could 2box toons, I simply don't want too. IMO Waystin is as valuable to any raid as Drannor and same goes for all else who box alts so they should be considered as 2 players in attendance instead of just one.

[Serano]

current policy:

Boxes earn DKP when requested by the raid leader. Boxes can bid on lewt if they are present whether asked for or not. Boxes that are camp outs do not recieve DKP.

Alts earn DKP already. But a person has the latatude to bid points earned amongst their alts - with the exception of boxes. Boxes may not share points earned with their main. Essentially if we see a char on at the same time as your main - poof its a box - it can never get points from your main.

Proposed change. EVERY CHAR you earn points on will have those points soulbound to them. We have already agreed in officer forum that if we go here, for peeps with retired mains we will give a one time grandfather oppotunity to move those points permanantly to your new main. This is intended for peeps that have a char that is mostly retired so far as raids are concerned and is up to the requester to make the move in points.


Why? The reason for this proposal is that we have had some concern expressed in officer forums and in tells with members over the validity of players earning points on one toon then spending them on an alt - thus making a player earn their points for each char they want to spend their points for.

[Goofydoofy]

Here is how I see it...

One toon should get DKP points at a raid unless specifically asked to box more. So, I could box 12 toons and only get points for one. Who gets those points? The main toon should get those points. Unless I was asked to box 12 toons, then all 12 toons get a equal amount of points.

Now, how do I spend those points? I think one person should be able to use all points from all toons to bid with that persons main. Only when no mains want to bid on a item can a alt bid on something. Only after no alts bid on something is when anybody can bid for it (Non-useable classes).

Nobody should be penalized when it comes to bidding on something because they were asked to box more toons at a raid. It seems to me that if you can't combine your points anytime you like, then your getting a penalty for boxing anything but one specific toon. The person does all the work, not the toon. And that person should be able to spend his rewards any way that person wants.

[bill]

Nobody should be penalized when it comes to bidding on something because they were asked to box more toons at a raid.

I'm confused, we don't penalize ppl when it comes to bidding because they were asked to box more toons at a raid. Wanna clarify that comment for me plz Goof?

Or maybe, how are we penalizing?

[Conan]

Only thing that kills me is bidding against a War/Pally/Sk alt whose using their mains DKP. But not gonna get into it too late in the day and I want some empage tonight hehe.

[Goofydoofy]

If you give points to a boxed toon, those points can not be used by the person except for on that toon, is that correct? If so, that person is getting penalized when he wants to use those extra points when he bids with his main.

[arielyn]

He still has the points to bid on his boxed toon, so they are available if he wants to get his box an upgrade. And he still gets his points for his main toon, so the points are available there as well. And this will help eliminate the alt / main / whatever that is going on here. When people have 2-3 toons that are lvl 65-70 the line between alt and main becomes less and less clear. This allows people to get upgrades for any of the toons that they play alot, and also eliminates someone with tons of points to bid their points on an alt.

perfect example. I raid with Akinis, and a Bloodfrenzy Drops. So i blow all of arielyn's points and get akinis a bloodfrenzy, rather than a tank such as conan that could benefit the guild MUCH more than my alt. No, that should not be allowed to happen. Now say, I raid with akinis for a few months, and he earns his points, or even if he only has 15 pts, and wins loot. well then obviously the item was not a highly contested item, so the guild still benefits.

Funny thing, is that this is the same stuff you were saying before when we installed the DKP system. And you don't even box / have alts. Your reasoning was to look out for people that don't visit these message boards, and I agree with you. However, there are very few people who actually box, and i think that all of them use the messageboards very frequently.

[Goofydoofy]

Yes, it is the same. I will always say that one person should be able to use his points anyway that person wants to. No matter what toon that person is using. It is the person, you see...That is doing the work...And that person should reap the rewards in any way that person wants.

What good are points for alts if alts can't bid against mains anyway?