Bidding rights when boxing someone elses main?

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Postby rsix » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:25 pm

:jester yes goofy, and likes football. Good stuff.
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hmm

Postby bill » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:00 pm

its a tough situation since its still for the good of the guild.

As far as I am concerned in the ridiculous amount of time you've been with the guild even tho you haven't been in game constantly, i would not imagine thinking you had any selfish agenda regarding the loot.

It just happened you tripped over a hole we hadn't encountered before.

We live for that shit :thumbup
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Solution

Postby Goofydoofy » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:07 pm

I know the perfect solution. It is tried and true and been proven to fix all these problems in the past.

Give ALL lewts to Nistari for 1 DKP!
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Postby Bilnick » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:20 pm

A possible solution would be to cap how much an alt or boxed toon can bid. 25 points for instance. No prime loots are going for less than 25 points. If you are a main and aren't willing to outbid an alt or boxed toon then you really didn't need the upgrade that badly. This would be applied only if you have more than one toon at a raid.

Reducing the amount of DKP a boxed toon receives would limit the amount of upgrades that toon wwould get also.

I would prefer to have mains get the majority of loots. The instance with the bracer last night was not really a problem. The 10-15 points that went for is only 4 or 5 raids. I think what people would not want to see is a boxed toon getting an FT6 shield for instance. Atris has 50-60 DKP. Does the guild really want Atris to have that shield over a main? Probably not.

That being said, I have never bid on any item for Atris. Atris has not had any upgrades for over a year and will probably remain that way.
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Postby Uilea » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:26 pm

Finally! A discussion that manages to piss me off!

Jah and I have meticulously discussed where our next raid upgrades will come from. He knows exactly what I want and how much I’d be willing to spend on it. I have planned before for him to bid on stuff that might drop for me before. I trust him completely with my character and my points, especially in this last month or so where I haven’t been on much because of finals (which are over now, thank god)

I fail to see why it is even an issue. I know for a fact that Jah is very good at managing two boxes, and that even when I’m not playing her, Uil is making a significant contribution to the success of the raid. Parse my dps sometime. Last Garudon raid, Jah put me at ~70k total damage. Wizards were made for raiding, I do huge amounts of damage, and I can think of multiple encounters where if Uil hadn’t been present in her boxed state, we wouldn’t have killed the target, as well as encounters where if I had been there, and boxed, we would have won. Face it, I’m the only wizard who is regularly present at raids, even if I’m boxed at the time. But if you don’t like getting xlocs, that’s fine with me.

It’s not as if I’m just on AF sucking up DKP. Is there really anyone here who doesn’t know that Jah is like family to me? Or how often he boxes me? It’s not like him boxing me at raids has been or is going to be a one-time thing. If I’m receiving DKP while boxed, why should I not be able to spend it while boxed? Why would Jah not be allowed to spend the points just because Uil is my main when I get to play, not his? Jah already plays Uil more than I do, except I pay the bills.

Jah spending my points is not something that I have ever considered to be unfair or against guild policy
Last edited by Uilea on Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby phishn00 » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:31 pm

Myt, I just wanted to say again that I've got nothing at all against you or Riann. By boxing her, I know the raid went much smoother, and I can appreciate the pain in the ass it is to box someone while you're trying to pull. The intention of this post was definitely not to whine, and loot is really not a big deal to me (I've looted 1 item in 44 raids). The only reason I brought this up was I pictured this scenario: we kill the Emp, he drops

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=11701

and someone who's being boxed wins it over someone who is there. This is the best int caster robe pre-potime, and I could see people being upset if they lost out to a box, no matter who the box was. Basically, we're getting to the point where some very nice loot will be dropping from the Emp and then VT, so I just thought it may help to avoid problems in the future if we have a policy in place regarding this.
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Postby Serano » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:24 pm

Jah spending my points is not something that I have ever considered to be unfair or against guild policy


its not currently against policy. Currently our policy allows for a char being boxed to be bid on by who is boxing that char - since no designation in our policy differentiates between a main being boxed or a perma box being boxed.

i) Boxed chars are elligible to bid on loot with DKP earned by that character alone. No Boxed characters may trade points to or from their mains or other characters. For DKP purposes, a Boxed toon is one that is generally only used for two-boxing, and is not played as a regular alt or main.


Right now the category that uilea and Riann fall into does not exist in our DKP ruleset.

This discussion can result in a refinement of these circumstances or no change. I am taking it Uilea that you are voting for no change or at the least reinforcing the above interpretation?

For example if I read Uilea right ---- the last sentance in the above quote should read For DKP purposes, a Boxed toon is one that is CURRENTLY being boxed by another player at that raid

then perhaps add:

1) boxed toons can bid on items on equal footing with the other raiders by whoever is currently boxing them if the real owner allows for that

OR

1) boxed toons can only bid up to 25 points for any drops


any other recomendations on this? just trying to get the ideas down
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Toons

Postby Goofydoofy » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:42 pm

I am so glad I don't have these kinds of problems or worries. One toon rulez!! I don't have the skill to box a toon and I don't have the time to play a alt!! One toon rulez!!

Ei Ei O
Last edited by Goofydoofy on Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Aboobaka » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:43 pm

I can forsee an issue with someones boxed main bidding, and nobody knows he or she is boxed. It's something we couldn't actually be able to prove and could only be able to rely on what people say. I'm not saying ppl are gonna be lying about boxing someone elses main, I'm just saying if it were so and they wanted an item, I wouldn't want a discussion behind ppls backs questioning wether they were at the raid or not. Therefore, I am against any sort of special bidding requirements for boxed mains.
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Postby Uilea » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:38 pm

Serano wrote:1) boxed toons can bid on items on equal footing with the other raiders by whoever is currently boxing them if the real owner allows for that


This I can agree with. If the toon is being used at the raid it just make no sense at all to me why they cannot bid.
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Postby Bilnick » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:45 pm

I think Uilea makes some good points too. Uilea, or any boxed character is only getting raid points if the raidleader requested that the toon be boxed. So Riann, Uilea or Zyzz, (or any boxed main) are earning their raid points if they are boxed by someone else. If the real owner of the character trusts the person boxing the character to bid for them , then so be it. Maybe if the raidleader did not request that a main be boxed and was brought anyway, then there may be a reason to restrict looting rights for a boxed main. Tough call, but Uilea changed my mind as far as letting boxed mains bid.

Boxed alts like Atris, Tani or Xaznor maybe should have some restrictions. It's not like I would bid on the FT6 shield for instance unless the high bid was 15 points or something rediculously low. I doubt Serano or Nistari would either, but maybe some sort of guideline should be in place.
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Postby phishn00 » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:51 pm

The only reason I can think of is this: hypothetically, we're bidding on an item, it goes for 75 dkp. At the rate of around 1 dkp per hour, that's approximately 75 hours of raiding time. Is there a difference between spending 75 hours of your life raiding versus letting your account be used for 75 hours? In terms of real life, of course, but in terms of dkp, I dunno. I guess that's the question that needs to be answered. I'm not saying this is true with you Uilea, I'm really not trying to be a dick or make this personal. I appreciate you letting Jah box your toon very much, and yes, it does help the guild and the raid. Whatever way this works out would be fine with me, I'd just like to see something set in place to make sure everyone is on the same page.
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Postby Skel » Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:05 pm

Good God i agree with Goofy ...

I need to go lie down i think and ... rethink the meaning of it all.
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Postby Uilea » Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:20 pm

I know you're not making it personal Invi. I think this is a good topic to have cleared up before our next raid.
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Postby cywair » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:18 pm

when i used to run both my bards when they were 65 thats 2 boxing 2 equal lvl toons both mains on seperat accounts, i had to still choose which was main, and only if we needed the other bard would he even get DKP unless requested by someone that they needed other bard for something like CoH chain and such, otherwise if i brought him he was still considered an alt even if he was a main and on a seperate account, how would this differ, except that you are playing someone elses main but unless speciffically asked to play that toon why should they even get DKP?

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