President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

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President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Bilnick » Tue May 19, 2009 1:54 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30810514/

Next he will decide a 2500 sq ft house has too big of a carbon footprint and require all new houses to be no more than 1500 sq ft by 2020.

This guy is making W look like a genius by the day.
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Ceruis » Tue May 19, 2009 6:54 pm

I'm waiting for us to go bankrupt. It should only take about a year. :help
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Horcrux » Tue May 19, 2009 9:01 pm

Personally, I don't see the big problem here, maybe I am missing it. If cars can be made more efficient, what logical reason is there behind them not being made more efficient, so that they use less consumables while still providing the same or better service? Sure it might cost a little extra, but better technology is always increasing the cost of an object. Just like a car coming with airbags, electric locks, powerful CD players, etc. Those all cost extra, better efficiency should cost extra. The only downside I can see is that increased efficiency on consumables means hurting business for lube shops and such. But better technology has always hurt old jobs which used to be necessary. Just look at what email has done to the postoffice.

If it's about having the right to own a big gas guzzling Hummer (or like vehicle) that's fine and that is your prerogative. However, would you be opposed to owning the same Hummer, which gives you the same level of service as an old style Hummer, but runs at 35 mpg?

With my chosen field of work, I doubt I will own a 2016 model car until 2025 or later as it is.
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Bilnick » Tue May 19, 2009 11:03 pm

Personally, I don't see the big problem here, maybe I am missing it. If cars can be made more efficient, what logical reason is there behind them not being made more efficient, so that they use less consumables while still providing the same or better service?



If consumers had wanted cars that averaged 35.5 mpg, the auto companies would have made them. People wanted big SUVs and Trucks instead. What happened? GM, Ford, and Chrysler built trucks. The Japanese auto makers built factories in the US to build trucks. Gas spiked to $4 a gallon last summer. What happened? Small car sales shot up while Trucks and SUV sales nosedived.

There is a market for high efficiency cars, and a few people are willing to pay a premium for that. The Toyota Prius is a fine example of that. It is your basic 17k economy car selling for 23k because it gets marginally better gas milage. Just don't try and take a family on vacation in one.
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby ThinkInk » Wed May 20, 2009 3:34 pm

I do believe that we've had this (or a similar) discussion before.

As you well know Ford, GM, Mercedes, and all other auto manufacturers have had the techonogy know-how to make 35 mpg and above vehicles for the last 50 years. Yes 50 years ago the cost of such a vehicle would have been prohibitive and I am sure it's not getting any cheaper in today's economy. But the point is that the technology has been available but not implemented because gasoline is cheap and plentiful.
The problem is magnified by the emission control standards set forth by the government. While I do not dispute the perceptive need for a cleaner environment, please also take note that most of the countries around the world don't give a rats arse about this matter, emission controls as they exist today are heavy and power robbing contraptions.
So the possibility of making a Lincoln Continental achieve 50 mpg is real until you you load it down with 300lbs of recirculating, or fueled, emission controls. Now you get 25 mpg if you're lucky.

I don't claim to have the answer here but it's not the current President who decided this on course of action, but he's the one that is trying to accelerate the time-table. Is this a good thing? For those areas that suffer from heavy smog I would have to say yes, but I am sure that those that live in Belda, Oklahoma would disagree with the need to pay an additional 4-5K for all these useless controls.
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Horcrux » Wed May 20, 2009 6:25 pm

Yeah, most other countries don't care about emmissions and efficiency standards. That is why people in China wear masks almost everywhere they go, and many Olympic athletes refused to participate in the last Olympics due to the air.
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby ThinkInk » Wed May 20, 2009 7:56 pm

Horcrux wrote:Yeah, most other countries don't care about emmissions and efficiency standards. That is why people in China wear masks almost everywhere they go, and many Olympic athletes refused to participate in the last Olympics due to the air.


Truly, but we Americans have always tried to lead the world by example. And we will continue to lead the way to our own cleaner air, bitching and moaning about the cost all the way. Of course I just read in Motor Trend that the new Camaro and the Ford Mustang kicked the Chargers arse. I guess this means we can still keep some of our toys. :banana
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Bilnick » Wed May 20, 2009 9:11 pm

The new Camaro is the best looking car I have seen in years.

Arbitrary mileage standards are just plain silly. My sister has a Chevy Suburban. Big SUV. Evil gas guzzler, so says the greenies. Only gets 16-18 mpg. Certainly no Toyota Prius which gets 40+ mpg. But you know what? 80% of my sisters trips with her Suburban is taking her kids to school, after school activities, whatever. Most times when she takes the Suburban out is has 4-6 people in it. So which is more efficient? A Suburban with 6 people getting 16 mpg or some greenie in his Prius getting 45 mpg?

Mark my words, higher mpg standards will certainly cause a gasoline tax increase. If we use less gas, that means less gas taxes collected. Roads are poorly maintained as it is (especially in states that have snow in the winter).

When Obama was elected I figured I would give him a chance. After all there is no way to go but up right? I was obviously wrong. His first four months have me longing for the good old days of Bill Clinton or dare I say Jimmy Carter!! 7 1/2 more years of this fool are going to make me go broke.
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Serano » Wed May 20, 2009 9:39 pm

I would drive an electric Mustang if it had the same pick up as a gas one, and didn't look like crap (prius)

Well - glad I am buying my 2500 SQ FT house now. Wheh!
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Worff » Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm

Heh I took a ride in a 4 cylinder (Dodge Caliber supercharged) ... it was no Mitubishi Evo, but in a couple of city blocks we got from 0 to 100 MPH in a short few secs ... traction control felt odd /shrug .. but anyway point is, some vehicles have the power that are gas and still not a gas guzzler compared to muscle cars, and the Caliber even has decent space for a small car. I doubt many parents would own one tho hahaha ... tough to pack kids + gear in it just to get them to school going 100 MPH in a street rod :P

Saw one of the 2010 Camaro's the other day (havent worked on one yet tho) and you're right Bilnick it's an awesome car $$
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Serano » Wed May 20, 2009 11:19 pm

I drove a friends Neon (I had dropped her off at Ramstein for a Space A back to NJ) and found out it had a governor that prevented me from taking it over 115. When I told her about it when she got back, she was surprised it even made it to 115. She hadn't tried that fast. I didn't even think about it -I was on the autobahn.

Trying to remember if it was a 3 cylinder or a 4.
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Re: President Obama has decided you will drive a econobox.

Postby Meso » Thu May 21, 2009 6:36 am

nah. you just reached the limits of the fuel pump :jester
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