stimulus bil

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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Antok » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:41 pm

Do you think it was a coincidence the stock market plummeted right after Barry signed the "stimulus" bill?

The immediate reaction of the markets to the stimulus bill is completely irrelevant as to whether or not the stimulus will actually work.

The mortgage bailout rewards banks and individuals that made poor decisions, plain and simple. When my wife and I bought our house we bought a house that we could make payments on if one of us lost our job. Neither of us did so we were able to pay it off 18 years early. Instead the government will reward the guy (and banks) who maxed out his credit cards, overspent on a 3000 sq ft house that he could only afford if he was working 20+ hours a week of overtime.

If you are falling behind on your payments because you lost your job (which was your original query,) then the mortgage relief stuff in the stimulus bill will benefit you. You're right that it does benefit people who were just plain stupid, but it also benefits people who were just unfortunate.
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Worff » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:16 pm

The immediate reaction of the markets to the stimulus bill is completely irrelevant as to whether or not the stimulus will actually work.


I agree... signing a bill like that doesn't produce instant results in the market, or anywhere for that matter. Only time will tell if it will work or not.

Plus, the stock market plummeted first when banks started failing and the sub-prime mortgage issue started during W's time. The Bush administration's reaction was partly a "stimulus" package also (depending on income)... giving most taxpayers 600 bucks, 1200 for married, and some even got 300 per kid. Bill was signed Feb. 08, checks started going out May 08, but during that time Wall Street was still having problems because they already had a downward momentum... its hard to stop a train goin downhill hehe.

I don't really like Obama, and not saying I like or dislike the bill, but in all fairness he inherited a big mess with the office. No matter who's in that seat it's going to take time to fix.

You're right that it does benefit people who were just plain stupid, but it also benefits people who were just unfortunate.


Yeah and the unfortunate is who it's aimed at pretty much, and the stupid who were victims of clever salesmanship. Don't forget the brokers who loaned the stupid the money, probably convinced many of them they could indeed afford it... which is surely telling them what they want to hear since most peeps who don't have a house would give their left nut for one. Reason they did this is simple, the brokers made an average of 3000 bucks commission for every mortgage they "sold". They made a shitload of money then boogied. Not a new tactic folks, it's been around for eons in various industries.
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Hipityhipity » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:10 pm

Just come back and re visit this topic if they Nationalize the Bank's as we move closer tword a socialist country
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Antok » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:14 pm

Hipityhipity wrote:Just come back and re visit this topic if they Nationalize the Bank's as we move closer tword a socialist country

You listen to a lot of rush limbaugh, don't you?
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Serano » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:32 am

Meso wrote:then you apparantly don't realize what a clueless tool little george was. one of the worst presidents in history.
Honorable
??? :jester :jester
He has no honor.


That's true if the media says someone is clueless loud enough and long enough it is true.

Meanwhile - ALL presidents, and executive branch heads are referred to as Honorable. that's United States courtesy; Regardless if you agree with their politics, party, or executive actions. Just as it is important to teach your children the proper respect and dignity that is afforded to our current governments, even when we disagree with them, so that they do not grow up believing it is good to deride leaders just because your parents may not like them.
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Meso » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:49 am

honor is a reflection of action and respect must be earned.
I don't follow the media like the mindless sheep of this country.
A leader has to show me that he deserves respect. I haven't seen much to impress me lately.
I'm always willing to give a guy a chance. But when a guy repeatedly shows himself to be clueless I have no respect to give.
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Bilnick » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:38 pm

I read an article in Newsweek or maybe it was MSNBC criticizing the "stimulus" bill. I wish I could find it. The author pointed out that much of the stimulus package (300 billion or so) will not even be spent until 2011!! (The congressional budget office is where he got his numbers from, I am going from memory so the numbers may be off slightly) People are starting to see this whole stimulus package as a farce. If you need to spend to stimulate the economy, spend now, in 2009, not 2011.

I am also getting tired of the current administration saying this is the worst economic crisis since the Depression of the 1930s. I seem to recall the economy being worse during the last time we had one party rule, the 1970s, during the Jimmy (er excuse me, James) Carter administration. Unemployment was over 10% nationally and interest rates were much much higher (over 15%)

Also, how does the President figure he will cut the budget deficit in half in 10 years? Does he not realize he might not even be the President four years from now, and almost certainly will not in 10 years (unless the Constitution is ammended)? How can he make promises for the next President?
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Antok » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:16 pm

I read an article in Newsweek or maybe it was MSNBC criticizing the "stimulus" bill. I wish I could find it. The author pointed out that much of the stimulus package (300 billion or so) will not even be spent until 2011!! (The congressional budget office is where he got his numbers from, I am going from memory so the numbers may be off slightly) People are starting to see this whole stimulus package as a farce. If you need to spend to stimulate the economy, spend now, in 2009, not 2011.

The CBO says that the stimulus can create nearly four million jobs by 2010, lowering the unemployment rate as much as 2.1% from the projected 8.7%, and say that the bill will be a significant stimulus to the economy in the next three years. It also says that it may result in a GDP drop of 0.1% to 0.3% in 2019 from where we would be without the stimulus. They make a pretty large assumption in the GDP drop about how much private investment will be discouraged that I am not convinced of the validity of.

It's up for debate whether the stimulus is the best option in the US economy in the long run, but I'd rather have a hamburger when I was starving even if it meant I couldn't have quite as much filet mignon when I wasn't.

I am also getting tired of the current administration saying this is the worst economic crisis since the Depression of the 1930s.

A brief googling says that this view is supported by Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernanke, Roubini, Rogoff, Behravesh, the IMF, Fox News, plenty of economic advisers from former administrations (both republican and democrat,) etc...


I seem to recall the economy being worse during the last time we had one party rule, the 1970s, during the Jimmy (er excuse me, James) Carter administration. Unemployment was over 10% nationally and interest rates were much much higher (over 15%)

Are you seriously trying to link our current economic state to the fact that democrats control both the presidency and the congress?

(Whether or not you call this a worse crisis depends on what metric you are using. It could certainly be honestly described as the "worst financial failure since the great depression," though.)

Also, how does the President figure he will cut the budget deficit in half in 10 years? Does he not realize he might not even be the President four years from now, and almost certainly will not in 10 years (unless the Constitution is ammended)? How can he make promises for the next President?

Every president makes long term plans, and thus it's really really stupid to criticize Obama for doing so.
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Bilnick » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:00 pm

I am not blaming one party rule for our current situation, but I am blaming it for ramming this bloated stimulus package through the congress before anyone in congress could have possibly even read the bill, let alone debate.

Democrats, who rightfully criticized the previous president for posting ~400 billion dollar deficits (the President always gets blame or credit for deficits/surplusses even though it is congress that doles out the money) are strangely quiet when a 1.75 TRILLION dollar deficit is posted for 2009. The government talks about irresponsible borrowing/loaning in the housing industry. Pot meet Kettle. Times are as bad as they have been in 30 years....lets really rack up the deficit!

My point with the Newsweek article mentioning that much of the money will be spent in 2011 or later, is that the "stimulus" bill wasn't based on stimulus at all, but rather politics as usual in DC rather than "Change We Can Beleive In" Congress and the President know that Obama's popularity is as high as it probably will be, and now is the time to get garbage pushed through. Couldn't they have passed a stimulus bill with the exact same spending in 2009 as the one that was passed and re examined the state of the economy in early 2010? Maybe the economy will be on the road to recovery in 2010 and dollars earmarked for 2010 and 2011 in the current stimuls bill would be wasteful? Based on the bill that was passed, we know the congress and president can get things shoved through quickly.....
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Serano » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:33 pm

LOL bilnick, I think Carter really did (and does) go by Jimmy.
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Goofydoofy » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:20 am

Last time I got a stimulus bill, the hooker added in some hidden charges. So the lesson here is, always read the stimulus bill carefully.
Last edited by Goofydoofy on Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: stimulus bil

Postby Bilnick » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:34 am

Serano wrote:LOL bilnick, I think Carter really did (and does) go by Jimmy.



:)
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