WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

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WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Caniza » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:02 am

From an article at Maximumpc.com, a guild cleared all the raids in the new expansion in 3 days....

I'm flabbergasted. I mean, 3 days?!! I know WoW is easy mode compared to EQ, but still, 3 days is way too fast, even with inside knowledge from beta. Even the leveling rate in WOTLK seems ridiculously fast, I started seeing Realm First Level 80 spam within 2 days of expansion release. The first death knight on my pally's server made it to 80 in 6 days, thats 25 levels in less than a week. Yikes. I know Blizzard's trying to make it so that even casuals have a fair shot at raid content, but a top tier guild clearing raid content that quickly does not bode well for the raid content's longevity.

In regards to whether or not I have the expansion, I don't. I haven't bothered to buy it yet as I don't have a 70. I have a 67 lock(Caliarenia) thats only halfway through the 2nd zone in BC. Ive only run 2 of the BC instances with her. I've barely seen BC content and I'd rather hold off on Wrath until I've had a chance to get through more of BC. I might consider getting it when she hits 70, just so I'm not stuck at the old level cap.

The new death knight certainly sounds interesting (seen alot of them running around lately) and the level to unlock was lowered to 55, so I am able to unlock it, if I buy the expansion. Interesting thing is that even though they're now part of the major factions, the citizenry hates their guts. Every time I was in town and a death knight was around, the local npcs would occasionally emote insults, such as calling them murderers or suggesting lynchings or executions. Really makes them feel evil. =P Of course this is Blizz, not old school Verant/SOE(who would've actually let the npcs hang ya. Why I loved being an iksar =)).
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby bill » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:31 am

well, to be fair...

The guilds that did it would be the equivalent of the top 3-5 Maelin guilds banding together for the pure purpose of rocking the content in record time. Also add that most of those players were in the beta and had the bosses on farm status.

Also, the new expansion didn't exercise the usual mudflation we're used to in EQ. These high end players didn't need to farm gear, they did it in their high end gear from the last expansion.

The idea there is, WoW didn't force high end players to grind gear to play the encounters.

People had maxed their tradeskills 8 hours after the expansion went live. It went live at midnight and when I hopped on in the morning, someone had maxed fishing as I logged in. FIshing. That person basically went there and fished for 8 hours after the expansion went live.

Who gets an expansion and spends the next 8 hours straight in it...fishing?

The thing was, they gave achievements for the being the first ..anything..on your server.

The first human to lvl 80, the first warrior to reach 80...the first person to max fishing etc.

So they actually gave ppl incentive to be freakish. With this in mind, I'm not surprised.

edit for Caniza
Oh also, if you buy the new expansion, when you hit 70 you won't be able to finish quests and get a money reward instead of XP. I spent the last month burning out all of the Nagrand, Blade's Edge Mountains and Netherstorm quests and broke 4k gold before the expansion hit. Almost enough for my epic flier skill!

Shame they don't let you fly in the new expansion until level 77 =x
But hey...flying carpets!!
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Caniza » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:38 pm

My understanding is the raid gear from bc only lasts to at least 75, maybe a few levels higher, which is a big change from bc as I had heard even raid gear was getting replaced within the first zone. Its a good change for the most part, the raiding guilds don't have to worry about their raid gear going obsolete the day the expansion launches. BC raids are also still viable for gear upgrades well into the new expansion, at least until most of the server pop hits 80.

They had their tactics down because of time spent in beta, which helped. I would still think they'd have to spend some time gearing up though. Granted, not as much as they would have needed to if they had to start over from scratch at 71.

I'm aware of what the realm first achievements are and think they're a bit silly, esp considering that the really hardcore were able to max out 10 new levels in 2 days. Most of em prolly played almost nonstop during that time or had friends playing their chars when they were sleeping(I'm willing to bet that's how a dk did 25 levels in 6 days). Reminds me of the old PVP titles. =P

Edit: Oh, in regards to your fishing comment - I have actually spent a few nights on my pally doing nothing but fishing nightfins in order to stock up on mp5 food. =P

Hehe, I know about the extra cash from quests if you're at the cap. I just hadn't considered it. =P It would be nice to help save up for my lock's and pally's flying mounts when I get em max lvl. They're both 67. I've also heard the dailies are a good source of cash. Kath's barely done 20 quests in hfp, up to lvl 66 I got in classic and the scourge invasion they ran during the Halloween event. =P

And yes, it does kinda suck that flying mounts aren't usable in Wrath till 77, but its understandable. They actually want people to play most of the content, not bypass it. =P I'm rather annoyed all the riding speed items got nerfed to not work past 70 though (even the druid flight form speed trinket got nerfed with something crappy on it now). Although my pally's crusader aura buff doesn't say anything about a level limit on it, nor the hunter talent with the riding buff, so those might still work.
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Bilnick » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:58 pm

Never tried WoW, so I am mostly ignorant here....but sheesh, 3 days? Hope it was worth the 2 year wait!

It took the top EQ guilds 4+ months to beat SoF. Based on the Lavanet site I am guessing SoD will be beaten faster than that.
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Caniza » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:39 pm

Well, wait and see. Its possible the less accomplished guilds won't make it through so fast. Blizzard has tried, for the most part, to make it so even casuals can complete raids in a reasonable amount of time. The side effect is that things are prolly not gonna be that challenging for the hardcore raiders. They even nerfed the BC raids just before Wrath came out so more people could progress through em. I don't see much point though. This isn't like EQ where you need to raid older raid instances in order to gear up for the current ones. All the change making old bc raid gear last to 75 does is give the currently BC progressing guilds time to finish up whatever they're doing without feeling like they were wasting their time. I suspect most new guilds and players will just grind their way to 80 and start doing the entry level raids in Wrath. You might still see pugs for Kara (10man entry raid in bc) and heroics(hard mode for group instances) still, but I have a feeling the number of raids you'll see for BT and Illidan(bc end boss) will disappear over time. Inevitable I know, but I'm talking during Wrath's lifetime, not 3 expansions down the line.

Also, I'm sure Blizz will add more raid content later on. During BC's lifetime they added 3 new raid instances along with 1 group instance. Plus a new faction with rewards to grind for one of those raid instances plus the group instance.

Hehe, some people prolly think death knight's worth the 2 year wait. Its the flavor of the month lately, starts at 55 with all blue gear and gets their epic ground mount from a quest pretty much for free. =P I've heard a guildie claim she soloed a mob around at least 8 or so levels above her as a death knight. (about the level range you stop seeing the mob's level) She didn't say how easy or hard it was though.

Lastly, since I forgot, there's now Heroic mode(hard mode) for raids (I have no idea if this is implemented yet and the above article doesn't mention what mode they beat the raids on), which should be considerably more difficult and provide better quality gear and possibly more drops. I'm guessing this is how Blizz plans to satisfy the hardcores and the casuals at the same time. Of course some of the casuals are prolly still going to complain about the hardcores having access to better raid rewards, which is what I understand was part of the reason for the gear reset in BC.

P.S. - Arthas still looks like he belongs on the cover of a heavy metal album. =P
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Bilnick » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:50 pm

Also, I'm sure Blizz will add more raid content later on. During BC's lifetime they added 3 new raid instances along with 1 group instance. Plus a new faction with rewards to grind for one of those raid instances plus the group instance.


Haha if Sony did that peeps would complain they released an unfinished expansion!
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Caniza » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:18 am

True. =P

Technically WoW classic was unfinished. If you ever check out the previous patches section you can see that alot of pvp, group, and raid content got added after release.

In BC, BT (the end raid zone wtih Illidan) and ZA were not available at expansion release so they did what SOE has done in the past and released them later on(remember Time? P). The Sunwell content may have actually been extra stuff planned later on.

I think for most WoW players its their first mmo and therefore aren't familiar, thus more forgiving, with devs holding back on content until after release.

Just from looking at WoWhead it looks like they're doing it again too. I only see 4 raid zones listed, 3 of which are single boss encounters; another naxxramas, the old 40man from classic, recycled into the 10man entry level raid. I also see no raid instance for Arthas yet, the Lich King himself.

Seems they're trying to shift some of the raid focus to smaller single boss instanced encounters this time around.

Puts things in a new light.

Damn, if SOE had so little raid content at an expansion's release they'd have had a few 72 man raids showing up at their offices.
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby bill » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:00 am

I'll say one thing: its damn nice to get xp again. After I got my epic flier I would have quit wow anyhow.

Only need about 800gold for the skill. Yeah the dailies in IQD are where the cash is at.

Still in 2 days of Netherstorm questing, I netted about 350,000 xp (with rested) in a couple hours played, solo.

Yeah the telling sign that this wasn't gonna be like the last expansion was that in that one, when you go to the first zone, the mobs hit like they did when you went to the poNightmare for the first time when pop came out.

The new expansion hits like Legacy of Ykesha =x
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Caniza » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:37 pm

edit: Scratch that, I reread your post and it sounds like you mean they're easier in Wrath instead of harder, bit disappointing there, but does go to explain a bit how people are hitting 80 so fast.

I remember when I took my warlock to Hellfire at 58, not only did the mobs hit hard, but the exp rate seemed to have slowed down to a comfortable rate. (For those who don't know, they buffed the rate you gained exp up to level 60 so you could get to the BC content faster, but it always seemed to me that maybe they buffed it a tad too much as the levels just seemed to fly by)
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Serano » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:16 pm

bill wrote:well, to be fair...

The guilds that did it would be the equivalent of the top 3-5 Maelin guilds banding together for the pure purpose of rocking the content in record time. Also add that most of those players were in the beta and had the bosses on farm status.

Also, the new expansion didn't exercise the usual mudflation we're used to in EQ. These high end players didn't need to farm gear, they did it in their high end gear from the last expansion.



Um,

aren't WoW raids only like 24 or 30 folks? Why would you need to band together 3 guilds to do 30 person content?
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Ceruis » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:37 pm

Most of WoW players are between ages 8-10....Only about 2 are above that age...Bill and Can...so they probably can't count too well. :jester
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby bill » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:26 am

I'm not sure on that one Serano. I don't raid in wow so /shrug
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Caniza » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:38 pm

Hehe, its 10 and 25man raids and actually I think there's only one kid around 15 or so in Kath's guild. Rest are over 20, though some of them make me wonder sometimes.

Wow is very focused on the casuals so I see lots of pugs for raids. I guess not all guilds can get enough members to regularly run 25mans (the current raid max). I do see quite a few pugs on the weekends, lately the wrath 10man. Seems, as I expected, nobody's doing kara or any of the bc raids anymore since you can get 80 within a week or 2 and entry level raid gear from Naxx now. (Blizz still fails at raid longevity)

I've only done a few pugs back in classic. I haven't had a character high enough to do bc raid content untill recently (started over when bc came out, plus a bad case of altitis =P)

It doesn't take much effort to form a guild in WoW. You just buy a charter and then pay 10 random people to sign it.

Sadly, I've been hearing that even the heroic 5mans and raids have been getting steamrolled pretty easily and I always assumed heroic meant hard mode. =/ I don't mind them making raid content more accessible to casuals. Not everyone can raid the hours I used to with you guys in eq, but I do mind that there doesn't appear to be much of in the way of challenging content, not even at the heroic level. Nor that most people are willing to cut Blizz slack for releasing so few raid zones and are just content waiting for Ulduar (next planned raid zone) and future raids to provide the challenge. Multiple settings of the same raid zone just doesn't cut it imo. (for instance, Naxx has 10man, 25man and heroic settings. Its still the same zone though)

I was tempted to rant further about every incomplete aspect of this expansion and if you read the wow forums (esp the professions one), you'd be left with the impression the expansion is just a beta rushed out the door to meet the holiday season and possibly even to compete with Warhammer. I haven't bought it yet and don't intend to till they fix most of the issues, plus I still got most of bc to get through. Just got my lock to 70 recently and the flying mount is sweet(bit disappointing its as slow as my level 40 ground mount though =/). I still got lots to keep me busy, so no rush to get Wrath.
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby bill » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:06 am

One word of advice, if you want to save for your epic flier, don't buy the expansion.

I was cruising along until quests and dailies started to give xp instead of money again. I'm still 900gold shy of the epic flier.

The instances in the expansion are fun times. I haven't actually cracked the quest content over there yet, I'm also still rolling through Shadowmoon Valley, the last zone in the first expansion. Kinda surprised, I'm level 75 and the quests there are still green. Also been working on my Ogri'la faction, I love that bombing run!
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Re: WOTLK Raid Content cleared in 3 days - WTF?!

Postby Caniza » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:29 pm

Hehe, exactly what I plan to do. Kath's almost 70 too, so thats 2 chars to get epic flier for. =P

Doesn't surprise me you're already 75 from just SMV. I got Kath to 65 from just doing classic high lvl quests and instances, 66 if you count the Halloween quests and scourge event. I'd only taken her to outlands once cause a guild group needed a healer in ramps. Had one guildie cheering me on thinking I'd go to 70 in just classic, but after one night doing all the quests in Winterspring and getting less than 5% exp, I didn't think I could take it. =P
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