US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Want to talk politics, religion, opinion, or Current events? go here.

Moderator: Officers

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Bilnick » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:50 pm

Heh, my wife ran one of those free credit checks, turns out we have 20+ credit cards. I rarely use cash anymore, basically only for vending machines or party store purchases or miscellaneous 5-20$ purchases.

I have noticed gas stations are charging different amounts for gas based on payment method again. Maybe I will need more cash.
User avatar
Bilnick
Officer
 
Posts: 5494
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Saline, Michigan

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Worff » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:57 pm

Goofydoofy wrote: In the end, nobody has anybody to blame but themselves because you are all the people who put these people in office.


First, I agree with you and Sothran that a lot of folks are idiots... but in their defense on elections, there are virtually only 2 to choose from as far as president... Dems and Reps. Sure there are Libertarians, Green Party, Independents, etc but no media outlet in the country gives them much (if any) airtime to get their campaign messages to the majority of the public. This is because (among other things) Dems and Reps have a lot of buddies in the corporate world and love to take their money to get themselves elected and, in turn help their buddies by encouraging lawmakers to set policies in their favor. The media is almost all Dem/Rep. Dems and Reps also have lots of followers among individuals because they make all these promises that affect them personally, but usually they do not end up happening. People tend to have short memories too because they have normal life things to worry about on a day to day basis.

Anyway, choosing from 2 Dem/Rep charismatic elitists doesn't really matter much because at the end of the day they are both for the same things except for a handful of issues that are "hot topics" to each individual voter... and like Isen said many people only care about something that affects them personally. Many people also just vote "all dem" or "all rep" based on the presidential nominee, but have little or no clue about the congressmen and senators they just voted in with them.

Good politicians that end up getting nominated for Dem/Rep are very in-tune to what the hot topics are on the most people's minds, and always use this to plug themselves and demonize their opponent. Then one gets elected, say by 51% of the vote.. what happens to the other 49% of the populations' personal interests? Well don't worry, the 51% probably won't get much of their personal interests attended to anyway. Dems/Reps both are in it for the power and the money, but it's important that the population believes in them.. so they lie /boggle.

There are some good ones out there, but they are very rare anymore... them and their corporate buddies ARE the ones to blame for most of the financial disasters... people trust them to make the right choices after being misled by their silver-toungued rhetoric.... to me they are nothing more than con-men with fancy suits, private jets, and $1000 haircuts.
Worff Makesitso - Magelo | EQPlayers
Image
User avatar
Worff
Webmaster
 
Posts: 5403
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Galveston, Texas
Highscores: 42

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Koromir » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:04 pm

I personally believe that we should not give these guys any money. This has never happened before on this big of a scale yet all these guys say the economy will crash if we don't bail them out, how do they know this? IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE! They were idiots and just bought all these crappy loans from smaller banks that shouldn't have given 500k mortgages to people who make like 30k a year. The small banks didn't give a shit because all they wanted was to get paid since they get bonuses based on how many loans they do. Seriously if the big idiot banks got shut down it would probably be more difficult to get loans for a while but things would recover. I just don't see how giving all this money to the idiots that caused this problem is going to fix things. All that will happen most likely is they will burn up that money and come back next year saying they need more. When AIG went under and the government bailed them out they had 30 billion dollars stored in an account set aside to protect the top 1 pct executives in their company. These are not companies we should be trying to save. They are all greedy assholes that should be arrested and have charges brought against them. I hope they go to a real federal prison and none of that white collar crime bs.
Image
User avatar
Koromir
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Goofydoofy » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:50 pm

Go to jail? Are you nuts? Most of the politicians have made their livings and received billions of dollars from people like the ones who screwed up so much stuff. Everybody is in this hand in hand. Why do you think the bailout would pay the CEOs and officers all the money they are supposed to get?

Everything is linked together in some way. Banks and politicians and governments are all in it together.

In the end, the average joe is getting screwed over in some way by somebody in government. That is just how we let things get. And until the rich have everything, the poor have nothing and the middle class is gone, expect the struggle to continue.
Level 105 Druid, Level 105 Enchanter, Level 105 Paladin
Drinal - Maelin Starpyre Server
Goofydoofy
Member
 
Posts: 4788
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:15 am
Location: Bullhead City, AZ, USA

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Koromir » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:48 pm

I didn't mean that the executives would get it directly all I was trying to say is they can't be trusted. They have caused alot of the issues and yes I know they probably have half the politicians in their pockets from all those "political contributions". The point I was trying to make is that if we just let the big banks die who bought all this bad debt, all that I believe would happen is the smaller banks would be more cautious about handing out loans to people who don't have good jobs which is probably going to happen as a result of what has happened anyways so no difference there. Our economy does not need large banks to buy up all the crappy loans. We need the smaller banks to stop handing out money to anyone with a SSN. Actually do some financial research and make sure people have the potential earnings to actually pay the monthly payments. I'm not saying anyone is innocent there was a lot of greedy idiots in every level of the economic system. If we bail them out we are just telling them its ok mommy and daddy will just come along and save your ass.

I just mostly think everyone in every level that was greedy, this means the idiots that took out the 500k loan when they knew they couldn't pay it off, the people at the smaller banks that approved the loan when they knew the borrower had no way to make the payments, the larger bank for buying all those loans when they knew damn well the loans were worth almost nothing. Jail time is probably not the answer since that would only cause more issues for the tax payers since we'd have to pay for that too. These people should be punished in some way though and I don't mean just by losing their jobs. I'm not sure of a good punishment but I'm sure someone will think of something.
Image
User avatar
Koromir
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Goofydoofy » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:52 pm

I say just kill em all.
Level 105 Druid, Level 105 Enchanter, Level 105 Paladin
Drinal - Maelin Starpyre Server
Goofydoofy
Member
 
Posts: 4788
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:15 am
Location: Bullhead City, AZ, USA

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Worff » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:02 pm

Make em work at McDonald's drive-thru window for 40 years for minimum wage :P
Worff Makesitso - Magelo | EQPlayers
Image
User avatar
Worff
Webmaster
 
Posts: 5403
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Galveston, Texas
Highscores: 42

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Ceruis » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Worff wrote:Make em work at McDonald's drive-thru window for 40 years for minimum wage :P


If your working at McDonald's for 40 years it because your an idiot or you really like working fast food. I've know people who like that kind of thing. Either way, you can better yourself any time you feel like it.
Alan - Fenny's little helper

App Officer: Tarvas (that me, Ceruis, idiot)

Image
Ceruis, Tarvas
Wife: Mechell
User avatar
Ceruis
Officer
 
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: Dead in a Ditch!
Highscores: 1

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Worff » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:31 pm

That was my suggested punishment... I think you missed part of the conversation hehe.

Ceruis wrote:
Worff wrote:Make em work at McDonald's drive-thru window for 40 years for minimum wage :P


If your working at McDonald's for 40 years it because your an idiot or you really like working fast food. I've know people who like that kind of thing. Either way, you can better yourself any time you feel like it.
Worff Makesitso - Magelo | EQPlayers
Image
User avatar
Worff
Webmaster
 
Posts: 5403
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Galveston, Texas
Highscores: 42

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Ceruis » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:40 am

that becuz I'm so tired lately. it sad.
Alan - Fenny's little helper

App Officer: Tarvas (that me, Ceruis, idiot)

Image
Ceruis, Tarvas
Wife: Mechell
User avatar
Ceruis
Officer
 
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: Dead in a Ditch!
Highscores: 1

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Ulrith » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:58 am

"Agent J," asks why the Men in Black do not alert the
whole earth to the (goverment)space alien presence. "People are smart" says Will Smith, but
Agent K says, "individual people are smart," but as groups "people are panicky,
and you know it." For this reason, Men in Black serve as the interface with the
rest of the universe's species, without ever informing the rest of the Earth
about the problem and opportunity
We are Borg. Your Technological and Biological thingies will be added to the Collective.

Thank you and have a nice day.
User avatar
Ulrith
Member
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: Twilight Zone

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Hilf » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:22 pm

1. Many execs. to these big companies that need to be bailed out, left the country and went into hiding. Like the guy who's plane crashed in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, who by the way they found his plane last night.
2. Politicians and Executives, although greedy, are some of the savviest and intelligent people on this planet, include George W. Bush. Just because he can't speak well in public means NOTHING! Many of us misspell our words when we type, but no one views that as stupidity do they? Plus, Bush can read people left and right, I bet he would make a great poker player. I honestly don't believe we can blame any politician or corporation for this crash as much as the lack of common sense from the smaller companies and American public.
3. Why shouldn't the government bail out these companies? Inflation, inflation, inflation. Just simply giving them fresh money is going to lower the value of the dollar because it's just going to put the government in more debt.
4. As long as J.P Morgan and Wells Fargo don't go under, I think I personally, will be ok because that's where my money is at. If I remember correctly, these banks use the money they receive from patrons like us, to invest in other companies. How many people know that General Electric owns NBC? Hell, I didn't find out til I read the book on the history of Saturday Night Live.
5. Worff asked in a previous post why many of our companies are owned from out of the country? I have 2 answers to this. The first is that there are tons of less restrictions for companies outside of the US. Second, many countries don't have anti big business laws so there are tons of monopolies like in China for example. These companies rival US Steel and J.P. Morgan back in the early 1900's when they were the largest companies around.
6. We all may be the ignoramus's that put Bush in office, but those of us who didn't vote last election, myself included, are bigger fools for not voting and trying to make change. Lack of action is worse than anything.
User avatar
Hilf
Member
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:29 am
Location: Avondale, Arizona

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Worff » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:24 pm

Politicians and Executives, although greedy, are some of the savviest and intelligent people on this planet, include George W. Bush .......> I honestly don't believe we can blame any politician or corporation for this crash as much as the lack of common sense from the smaller companies and American public.


Those that have the ability to take action, have the responsibility to take action. Agreed they are some savvy individuals, which to me makes it even more despicable that they take advantage of less savvy American public for personal and political party gain.

Why shouldn't the government bail out these companies? Inflation, inflation, inflation. Just simply giving them fresh money is going to lower the value of the dollar because it's just going to put the government in more debt.


Agreed... and add to that not only minimum wage but wages spanning well into the middle class have not gone up nearly enough to absorb the levels and rate of inflation that we've endured for decades.

Worff asked in a previous post why many of our companies are owned from out of the country? I have 2 answers to this. The first is that there are tons of less restrictions for companies outside of the US. Second, many countries don't have anti big business laws so there are tons of monopolies like in China for example.


Aye those are my answers too, as well being at the doorstep of cheap labor populations. Strange though that upper-classes' income has risen sharply with these huge corners to cut, but regular folks wages have gone up very little, if any. Also, where are the drastic lowering of product prices to pass on to the American public from these great savings? And since (inflation + stagnant wages + job losses) also have left many American's not able to afford these products, the economy is in trouble. I think this is a bigger impact than big companies hurting because of bad debts. There wouldn't be near as many foreclosures and defaulting debts if (inflation + stagnant wages + job losses) weren't such a big factor.

We all may be the ignoramus's that put Bush in office, but those of us who didn't vote last election, myself included, are bigger fools for not voting and trying to make change. Lack of action is worse than anything.


I sort of agree... definately makes sense that lack of action is worse, but with the electoral process the way it has become, it won't make a difference significant enough to bring on changes everyone is truly looking for. For one, check out any poll you see on websites... they all just ask who you are in favor of between Obama and McCain... uh, there are 4 other major candidates, and there have been other candidates in all presidential elections for as long as I can remember, but no one really acknowledges them that they even exist (to be fair, some of them deserve that tho haha like Cynthia Ann McKinney). The point is, Dems/Reps occupy most available seats in Govt across the nation and certainly in the Senate and the House... they control the media, and big biz controls the Dems and Reps... voting for either usually results in insignificant changes. Here are all 6 major candidates to look at, but 4 aren't near as "popular" and seem more unfamiliar because we never hear shit about them... they aren't Dems or Reps:

_2008_PCands.jpg
_2008_PCands.jpg (261.11 KiB) Viewed 2256 times


If you decide you like a Dem or a Rep .. fine vote for them .. but don't just vote for them because they are a party you have grown up being in favor of, or because of race or gender, or because they look good on TV, etc. Investigate what they have done in the past and what they have opposed or favored, learn something about them and don't just believe what they say on TV which is carefully scripted. Maybe write your congressman and demand that campaign funds go into one giant pool and get divided up among ALL candidates and demand equal media attention. Lol well since your congressman is likely a Dem or Rep I guess that may not work :D
Worff Makesitso - Magelo | EQPlayers
Image
User avatar
Worff
Webmaster
 
Posts: 5403
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Galveston, Texas
Highscores: 42

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

Postby Hilf » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:25 pm

also dont vote for them based on personal history and their families unless they are meth heads or some shit like that
User avatar
Hilf
Member
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:29 am
Location: Avondale, Arizona

Previous

Return to Real Life and Opinion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron