I dare you to read it all...

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I dare you to read it all...

Postby Wreaking » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:25 am

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist
professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new
students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can
cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.
Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does
he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to
Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a
glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student : "From...God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in
this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything,
then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle
that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is there
sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they
exist in this world?"

The student: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question.
"Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks
away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believ e in Jesus
Christ, son?"

The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your
Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for
that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has
with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his
own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited
heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything
called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat,
but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold;
otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every
body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and
heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero
(-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we
use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can
measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of
heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding
like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't
darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In
reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness
darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a
good semester. " So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start
with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you
explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and
magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To
view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just
the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes,
of course I do"

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where
the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot
even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching
your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has
subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me
give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has
ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one appears
to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical,
stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all
due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust
your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face
unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll
have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,"
the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in
the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does
not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like
darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of
God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does
not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when
there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Meso » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:22 am

heh, took the dare.
:thumbup
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Horcrux » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:21 pm

Have read that before, it's a good story. Probably not a true story, but it's still a good one.
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby bill » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:55 pm

I liked it. I'm still hung up on free will or the lack thereof and can't quite even begin to discern good from evil.
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Horcrux » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:43 pm

I'm actually putting the finishing touches right now on my lecture for tonight. I'm giving a lecture on the debate between Creationism and Evolution tonight, defending the side of Creationism using purely scientific evidence based in on a foundation of mathematical logic. It's something I will eventually do my Masters, and possibly a Doctorate, on if I have the opportunity. It's the most fascinating thing in the world to me.
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Nathan: "Brother versus brother. It's almost biblical."
Peter: "My brother can't walk through walls! Who are you?"

HEROES comes back September 15th with a 3 hour premier!
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Meso » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:51 pm

the most fascinating thing in the world to me is :bewbs :thumbup
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Wreaking » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:26 pm

Oerin, my wife related a story to me the other day, your post made me think of it.

When we are 5 years old we can't imagine what sex would be like, chocolate (for most..or candy/birthday cake, etc.) is the extreme pleasure. We could not imagine anything ever being better.

Then one day we discovered sex. And we think nothing could get better.

Well not on this earth, but for me I know I'll find it in heaven. Sex between a husband and wife was designed by God to be the closest thing to worship. All your attention is on the other person, all your pleasure comes from the other person.
Last edited by Wreaking on Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Wreaking » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:29 pm

Horcrux, I'd love to read your work when you are done. I am facinated by how our ph is just right to sustain life, our earth's axis tillts just the right degrees to sustain carbon based life. So much more that I have read and forgotten, I had a book on it that is proabaly in storage due to my remarriage 4 years ago and limited space right now.

And yeah I have no idea if this is a true story or a "parable type story" written to defend someones faith. A true story would be my pastor's teacher in College trying to tell the class that Moses crossed the Reid Sea and not the Red sea. A fellow student jumped up and said "What a miracle!" When the teacher explained that the Reid sea was only 2 feet deep the student replied "Yes it was a miracle all of those Egyptians drowned in 2 foot of water!"
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Offem » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:36 pm

I've read that before and I will read it again and again...it's a really good story and has a good moral to it. Just because you can't see something or use your senses to detect it doesn't mean that something doesn't exist.



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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Horcrux » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:02 am

The story is riddled with mathematical logic proofs, just had to point that out :)

On another hand, just did my talk, was amazing, and I can't wait to have my own classroom to teach!
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Nathan: "Brother versus brother. It's almost biblical."
Peter: "My brother can't walk through walls! Who are you?"

HEROES comes back September 15th with a 3 hour premier!
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby NaTi » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:54 am

Horcrux wrote:The story is riddled with mathematical logic proofs, just had to point that out :)

On another hand, just did my talk, was amazing, and I can't wait to have my own classroom to teach!

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last time i checked.... yup still a noob...

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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Bilnick » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:53 am

It seems to me that most of the "scientific" pro-creationism arguments I have read are more about finding holes in Evolutionary theory, rather than proving Creation.

A logical argument that supports Creation would not even have to mention Evolutionary theory.

I would like to see a Creation theory that all people of faith could support, but I do not think that is possible.
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Worff » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:50 am

Who's to say that evolution wasn't simply part of the creation process. It's possible they can exist together.
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby cliffy » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:35 pm

So according to the student all atheists are evil since they don't have the love of God in their hearts? I know that I lead a life that is has far less evil in it than many of the "Christians" that I know. The professor's argument isn't the only one that is flawed here.
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Re: I dare you to read it all...

Postby Worff » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:46 pm

By evil do you mean sin? Everyone has that hehe.
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