The government is refunding some of your taxes.

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The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Bilnick » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:55 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22782454/

Looks like my family will get $2100 dollars back.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Yagada » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:38 pm

The rebates, which would go to about 116 million families, had appeal for both Democrats and Republicans. Pelosi’s staff noted that they would include $28 billion in checks to 35 million working families who wouldn’t have been helped by Bush’s original proposal. Republicans, for their part, were pleased that the bulk of the rebates — more than 70 percent, according to an analysis by Congress’ Joint Tax Committee — would go to individuals who pay taxes.


HOW THE F*** DO YOU GET A TAX "REBATE" IF YOU DON'T F***IN PAY F***ING TAXES IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! :chair :chair :chair

35 million families in this F***ing country don't pay taxes? How do I sign up for that gig?

Why are we giving away free money to unemployable, worthless pieces of human-garbage who don't pay taxes????

I've been paying income taxes since I was 13 years old. If some POS, sleazebag with functional reproductive organs can't contribute to society something more marketable than a 13 year old KID can, they should be ashamed into self-exterminating the plague they impart on the rest of us. If 30% of MY REFUND is going to wasted flesh because they thought their "contribution" to society should be in the form of children they refuse to financially support, I'm pissed. If you're too poor to pay taxes, don't F***ing breed.

/rant off
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Jahras » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:09 pm

35 million families in this F***ing country don't pay taxes? How do I sign up for that gig?

Why are we giving away free money to unemployable, worthless pieces of human-garbage who don't pay taxes????


Individuals who pay income taxes would get up to $600, working couples $1,200 and those with children an additional $300 per child under the agreement. Workers who make at least $3,000 but don’t pay taxes would get $300 rebates.


These are people who are generally referred to as the working poor, people who's income is over $3,000 a year, but their household is still under, or very near the poverty line ( 3x the estimated cost of food for all people in the household ). It's a common misconception that the poor are lazy, or jobless, but there are actually a very large number of people in this category with jobs, but still in poverty. Basically people making around minimum wage who aren't receiving support from their families. A lot of people have skewed perspectives of the poor in the US, and are pretty shocked to hear that near 25% of our homeless are military vets, I think 1 in 13 was actually an iraq vet.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Bilnick » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:17 pm

Well you can have a job and not pay income taxes. I think most people who make $30,000 or less per year pay very little if any income taxes (people who are not dependents). They do of course pay Social Security, Medicare etc.

I agree with you though Yagada, it is kind of lame to rebate money to people who pay zero taxes, while not rebating any money to those that pay way more taxes. Those with household incomes over $150,000 get less of a rebate, yet they paid far more in taxes than a household making $30,000.

The fair way would have been to give everyone a 10% (for example) tax rebate, but the spin doctors would have said the rich benefit more while the poor little guy gets nothing.

I am still happy that I will get $2100 of my money back. It is $2100 more than I expected.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Yagada » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:32 pm

Amen. $600 is better than nothing, and much deserved by those who work hard to support thier families.

But, the income threshold before you have to pay something in income tax is a pathetic $3,000. Little girls can make that much money babysitting on weekends. If you don't make $3k in a year, you're not even trying.
Last edited by Yagada on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Serano » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:50 pm

if a homeless vet is living on the street he is passing up one of the thousands of empty VA sponsored beds.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Goofydoofy » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:10 pm

Somebody who makes over $150k a year doesn't need a rebate. They already make a nice living. It is the people who make less who can use it more to get by. The people who make the most money shouldn't be getting more benefits then the people who make less. This is why this country is so divded from poor and rich. I've worked my ass off 25 years and have very little to show for it. Some people never work a day and have millions. I'd say I deserve a huge break and the rich people can goto hell.

They don't need more money, the lesser of us do.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Worff » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:31 am

I have to agree with Wuup and Goofy on this. Couples making 150k don't usually worry about choosing between electricity in the middle of winter, or gas for the car, or food or rent etc... and I've heard many perceptions on the poor that just aren't true in most cases. Yeah I'm sure there are some deadbeats and unemployables out there, but many of them are working poor, and some would like to work but cannot due to disabilities of some sort, and some even want to work but have problems finding someone to actually hire them.

Today's job market is different than it was was 20 years ago, managers seem to hire more to maintain their comfort levels... they hire young ones just out of school because they can get them for cheaper and they are easier to take advantage of, and don't challenge them like a veteran worker might... outsourcing has become a problem... undocumented workers are at an all time high (tempting cheap labor)... and believe it or not, automation has gone crazy (GM now employs over 20,000 robots, I guess they have little robots to feed after all)... if you eat too many Big Macs or smoke cigarettes or consume anything that conflicts with whatever utopian lifestyle they think you should be leading, you don't get hired... if you have an ailment where you may make a claim against their health insurance policy, you may not get hired either. The list goes on and on.

This makes it very difficult for the poor to ever get anything that pays decent, some but very few will be able to rise above this IMO. So they work their minimum wage jobs and trod on. Then, Cost of Living increases compound their efforts to get ahead. These are the folks we all depend on to offer services we don't want to do ourselves also. Who will you miss the most if all services were gone? Your stockbroker, or the trash men picking up your trash so you don't have to dig your own hole or burn it. You favorite insurance agent, or the guys working at the sewage plant so you don't have to dig your own hole to shit in. Stop and think about the pizza guy, the guy bagging your groceries, the guys flippin burgers to pass to your fat ass out a window, etc hehe.

I say give those guys a better rebate, if they can buy their kids some new shoes or something or even 100 cases of beer to soften their hard life, it will still stimulate the economy as intended. I think middle class DEFINATELY deserves something also... but 150k+ seems like a fair cap to me /shrug.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Stonecrush » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:58 am

So we should trust the biggest crooks in our country to manage our money? I think not.

Also more than likely those people who make 150k + a year would resent your comments about how they don't deserve their rebate. What makes you think they don't work hard for their income? If someone went to college for 8 years to help obtain that income shouldn't they be intitaled to every last penny they earn and aren't they intitled to do as they please with that income. This is supposed to be a free country with the freedom to decide how to use that income (lawfully...) right? This isn't Communism, it's not everyone gets to share in one persons success by taking what they earn. It's their success that spreads out by their spending money, that stimulates jobs because there's a need for a service or good. If you take away that return then thats 3000 or more tax dollars NOT spent to then stimulate more ecnomic growth.

There are incentives for people who make large amounts of income to donate to charities and contribute to their communities. Ultimately if you aren't motivated to do better for yourself than I dunno what to tell you, other than look for better oppertunities and reasearch how to make more money? I am hardly rich but one day I plan to become a very well off individual finacially and I'll be damned if the gov decides how to manage my money that I work hard for, because I work hard at everything I enjoy. I already think government is to big and has way to much pork fat, giving them more tax dollars won't help the poor. :P

There are better oppertunities out there than just handing the poor a fat check. There are education programs to give them better job skills, places to shelter and feed them. Also there is the idea of working more than one job? I am going to start working two jobs myself to ensure I can move out. I also remodle an apartment and work on my truck. I am also extremely lazy so if I can do it, I know other people can. :chair

In the event of the arguement that but stone what about those poor families that aren't able to work more than 1 job. That sounds like a social issue that needs to be corrected by darwinism. I am a cold bastard but you cannot hand out checks to people because they'll just keep waiting for it in the mail every time, People are creatures of habbit and thats a proven fact. :)
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Jahras » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:49 am

what about those poor families that aren't able to work more than 1 job. That sounds like a social issue that needs to be corrected by darwinism. I am a cold bastard but you cannot hand out checks to people because they'll just keep waiting for it in the mail every time


That is certainly a valid viewpoint, many have argued to just let the poor, mentally ill, crippled, orphans and elderly die, or even executing them as being drains on society. They could even be eaten by the more successful members of society, or sold as pet food or slaves if that seems too barbaric.Or I guess you could do secret medical experimentation on them... oops! Been there, done that USA.

^^ ps. I hope no one takes that seriously. Social darwinism is just eugenics in practice, and we all know what that led to in the early/middle 20th century, which is why the US helped write and vote in the universal declaration of human rights.

Heh but really, I really have no opinion on who should get what tax break, personally. I just took issue with false stereotypes being thrown around like "unemployable, worthless pieces of human-garbage who don't pay taxes" about the very large population of people in poverty in the nation. They certainly have intrinsic, social, and humanitarian value to me, but even from a more callused economic stand point, without their cheap exploited labor, we would be faced with higher prices at Wal-mart and countless other places. Even if the government deems them too poor to pay an income tax, they're still in there with Medicare, social security, sales taxes, and all those other goodies. It's much like saying a child laborer in a sweat shop is worthless, even from the most socially disconnected view points, they're still valuable despite the circumstances that leave them unable to afford both food and shelter. I'd pull out some statistics for this stuff, but I'm lazy with all my homework and don't really feel like giving a term paper on sociology lol. But a fast bit? Most of the people who received welfare checks in the past few years were on welfare for less than one year, hardly leeching. If you're really interested in more on why the leechers/lazy/worthless sentiment is so firmly built into the American sentiment, I'd recommend reading Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, which I believe is freely available in the public domain now on the off chance that anyone is actually interested in this stuff.

For the wealthiest nation on the planet, we have some pretty embarrassing things that go on at the bottom rung which go largely unseen, but that is a whole different topic that I could rag on for hours about. If people are up for a discussion on it, we can make a split off topic about the the perception, treatment and actual status of the poor in the US, and elsewhere.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Bilnick » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:26 am

I disagree with goofy and Worff. This isn't a "free money for the poor" program. It is a TAX REBATE. The poor generally do not pay income taxes. How can they get a rebate to something they never paid in the first place?

It is a tax rebate, nothing more, nothing less. If it were fair it would not discriminate against people who are more successful than others.

This has been a bad year, so my family falls underneath the 150k threshhold published. But in years past I have had tons of overtime and my wife and I have made more than the 150k. So I should be penalized because I worked 60 hours a week???? This is USA not Russia, where we reward those who work harder.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Worff » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:30 am

Stonecrush wrote:Also more than likely those people who make 150k + a year would resent your comments about how they don't deserve their rebate. What makes you think they don't work hard for their income? If someone went to college for 8 years to help obtain that income shouldn't they be intitaled to every last penny they earn and aren't they intitled to do as they please with that income.


I was saying if they make 150k they don't really need it to have some disposable wealth to spend in the economy... thats whats this rebate is all about. People that make lower than that (especially the poor) have little or no disposable income whatsoever to spend on things other than immediate necessity. It's also not really about who's paying the most taxes, or the rich would be getting all the rebates and the poor would get nothing. Since there are FAR fewer rich than there are poor, that wouldn't do much to stim the economy now would it?
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Bilnick » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:24 am

My understanding of a tax rebate is to rebate some of the taxes people pay. Maybe I am not reading enough into it.

Thats the whole problem with this country. Taxes should be simple.

Your tax form should look like this.

Line A : How much did you make? $50,000
Line B : Multiply line A by 0.20= $10,000
Line C : Send in the amount in line B

No tax breaks for making too little, penalties for making too much, having 3 kids or 10kids or no kids, having a mortgage, union dues, home business, etc. Make it simple and fair. If everyone paid the same % from the guy making $1000 a year to the guy making $1,000,000 a year who would complain? There was a Democrat running for President a few (3-5 elections ago) who wanted a tax form on a 3 x 5 card. Brilliant. But of course he never made it past the primary. Jerry something I think?

Every time a tax cut, refund, whatever comes up there is class envy. The rich want the poor to pay his share, while the poor want want the rich to pay for everything, because apparently they do not "need" thier money as much. Go figure.
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Worff » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:33 pm

Heh well that's not really the point of this, but of course everyone needs their money whether rich or poor, but the rich do not need an incentive to spend money in the economy, they do that all by themselves because they have an abundance of disposable wealth. Let's define disposable wealth, which the way I understand is any money beyond what is directly needed for basic necessities for living in a society. It's this disposable wealth that makes economies boom, and the poor AND middle class need that the most to have any incentive to spend extra money on top of what they would normally spend.

And here is why that simple tax plan would not work, say a family makes 12,000 per year, well below poverty level. That's 1k per month. Could you pay your rent and utilities, food, water, trash pickup, gas for the car, car insurance, or even be able to afford a car for that matter, or pay for public trasportation.. all on 1k per month? No, you couldn't. So how could they possibly pay 20% of that in taxes?? This is why tax percentages are staggered. I do feel bad for the lower-middle class the most tho, because they make just enough money to get taxed hard, but not enough to really keep making ends meet.

Furthermore, there is a "profile" of someone with disposable wealth that shows in how nice their clothes are, and car, and health, and bling, and credit rating, and how nice a college they were fortunate enough to have the opportunity to attend (Harvard vs. Community College), etc. You can tell if someone shops for clothes at Neiman Marcus, or Goodwill/Salvation Army. Those that don't fit the "profile" will find it way harder to get a decent job. So, sure, they will end up being bitter because it's not class "envy" but rather class discrimination in a lot of cases. We see someone who doesn't fit this profile and assume they are fuckups, lazy, and should get a better job! I can't believe someone would have a problem with the poor fucker that makes $3000 a year getting a whopping $300 rebate. And where would you suggest the upper caps be for the tax rebate? $1,000,000 ?? 10,000,000?? Then the guy making 10 million would end up pissed off the guy making 1 million got a rebate?? The guy making 10 million must work harder eh??
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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

Postby Yagada » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:46 pm

Just to clarify:
There's a distinction between "the poor" and the "unemployable human-garbage" I mentioned before (or at least in my eyes there is). "Poor" indicates to me that there's a struggle occurring, and that an effort is being made to earn a living and support those dependent upon them. This is a class of people I have absolute respect for, especially those who have some kind of handicap but fight to make a significant contribution to society regardless.

The portion of our population that I detest to the very bowels of my existence are the "social parasites" (that's my term for them). These are people who feel entitled to something that I have worked for, but aren't willing to earn it themselves. In this group of leeches I would include criminals (thieves, crooks, robbers, white collar and blue), beggars (if you're able-bodied enough to beg me for something, you're able-bodied enough to go earn it), and the very worst of all... social breeders... aka people who bring a child into the world with no intention of caring for it, but expecting social handouts to care for them instead. Yes, these people do exist. This is not just a stereotype of the poor minority mother of 6 collecting child-support from 5 different fathers and a welfare check, either. There are people out there know that their financial situation would be improved by getting knocked up, so they do it.
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It is these people that I truly loathe, not the weak, sick or ignorant. If the man with Down syndrome who mopped the floor where I just had lunch can pay income taxes, everyone can. If any able-minded human being fails to contribute to the tax base for a whole year, it's because they're a lamentable person, not some incapacity to do so.
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