W signs 35 mpg bill.

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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby dkofklove » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:12 pm

1) Going to War in Iraq was a good move. Got rid of a guy that violated a peace treaty with the world. -- (Sorry what violated apeace treaty with the world when ??? If you are refering to the reasons for invading we were given you have to be kidding they were to say the least lies as our gov finaly admited. (oops sorry we made a mistake but for the right reasons bull shit they wanted a war), plz rember war is good to hide whats hapening in your econemy, an art mastered by magi thatcher in the falklands war)

2) I disagree with the Federal government providing money to students to go to college. Good move ( not american no clue what or how your gov shafts its students and future leaders, but if you dont support the bright in some way shape or form you will lose the poor ones who cant afford to go to university)

3) SCHIP is a broken program - too many loopholes that provides health care to children WELL above the poverty line that the program was not designed for. Also - had loopholes that allowed for adults to get the monies that were intended for children. Wrong number 3. ( health care atleast basic health care should be a right for everyone not just those who can afford it)

4) Social Security reform got denied by Congress and is a legislative initiative that he recommended and congress rejected. SS is broken - shame that no one wants to fix it because it would affect their re-election. ( god i bet i would disagree with you lol but no clue about it in america)

5) The Kyoto protocol is a flaming joke. It doesn't fix emmision problems world wide - it has severe problems. bedsides this whole program of labeling anyone that is opposed to anything at all that has a Green flavor is automatically a nutjob is funny. Its part of the whole cult of human involvment in climate change (CHIICC) where is you don't jump in the cult you are a nut job - regardless of the science. Humans do not understand the global environment enough to know if human interaction with it is having a global effect. -(Sorry serano wrong wrong wrong, we do understand enough about the worlds past and present clmate changes to clearly show the trend to over all global warming and the trend accelerating. Take of your rose tinted spectacles and smell the destruction of the earth. Sadly some of what you say about kyoto is correct it was to damn wishy washy it need to be a damn sight tougher on all nations and that includes the big polluters china, america, india soon and all the rest, no great shock it was not and people pulled out sad state of affairs when modern advanced sociteies ignore whtas hapening under there nose's for to put it mildly self intrest)

6) Amnesty for illegal immigrants. Well - unlike Regan - he proposed that the illegals pay their back taxes in order to earn amnesty and the the right to APPLY for legal residency. Better than never getting those taxes and keeping them here undocumented. ( wow i find my self agreeing with you damn)

Ok 6 tries 6 fails. Try again. ( plz come back after you have wiped out life on earth, here is a spade go hide yer head in the sand the end is nigh)
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby dkofklove » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:20 pm

dedum working way through this post is fun lol.

In the uk most cars are above 35 mpg as standard and have been for a very long time. Then again we pay 2-4x as much for fuel as you guys atleast so the pressure is on. Think my mates rather fast little car actualy got 56 per gallon on way back from scotland and we did not drop bellow 100mph for most of the journey
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Bilnick » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:28 pm

2) I disagree with the Federal government providing money to students to go to college. Good move
(not american no clue what or how your gov shafts its students and future leaders, but if you dont support the bright in some way shape or form you will lose the poor ones who cant afford to go to university)


In the USA it is possible for any motivated student to go to college. The burden of paying for their education is on the student more so than other countries.

There are many ways to pay for school:
- Mom and Dad pay for you.
- Student loans
- Scholarships
- Enlist in the Armed Forces
- Go part time to college and work a full time job to pay for your schooling. (this is what I did)

It is not that hard, it just takes considerably more effort than High School.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby dkofklove » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:53 pm

i look at a govermental investment in students as a great and econimaclay sound idea, forcing them to deal with unecessary stress on to of the reg stresses seems well silly. i know i strugled barley able to meet my bills and eat properly working many hrs in the evenings and studying during the day, and that was with a student loan. i left uni with many thousands of pound's of debt which im still paying off. The reality is for a small out lay of cash i would have been far less stressed and would have been able to devote more time to my studies. after graduating in general students will start to ear 25%more a year therefore paying far more in tax and producing in general a more boyant economy. So by making them pay for the education you are and always will put, the less well off students at a disadvantage from the start, which will discourage some sadly. The fact that the money they will bring in from extra tax revenue far out ways the small investment is sadly overlooked.
I aplaud those who have fought for there education, i did, and i know how much it means, but i do not belive that my children should ever have to go through the stress and hardship i did, or anyone elses for that matter.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Serano » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:32 pm

dkofklove wrote:1) Going to War in Iraq was a good move. Got rid of a guy that violated a peace treaty with the world. -- (Sorry what violated apeace treaty with the world when ??? If you are refering to the reasons for invading we were given you have to be kidding they were to say the least lies as our gov finaly admited. (oops sorry we made a mistake but for the right reasons bull shit they wanted a war), plz rember war is good to hide whats hapening in your econemy, an art mastered by magi thatcher in the falklands war)

2) I disagree with the Federal government providing money to students to go to college. Good move ( not american no clue what or how your gov shafts its students and future leaders, but if you dont support the bright in some way shape or form you will lose the poor ones who cant afford to go to university)

3) SCHIP is a broken program - too many loopholes that provides health care to children WELL above the poverty line that the program was not designed for. Also - had loopholes that allowed for adults to get the monies that were intended for children. Wrong number 3. ( health care atleast basic health care should be a right for everyone not just those who can afford it)

4) Social Security reform got denied by Congress and is a legislative initiative that he recommended and congress rejected. SS is broken - shame that no one wants to fix it because it would affect their re-election. ( god i bet i would disagree with you lol but no clue about it in america)

5) The Kyoto protocol is a flaming joke. It doesn't fix emmision problems world wide - it has severe problems. bedsides this whole program of labeling anyone that is opposed to anything at all that has a Green flavor is automatically a nutjob is funny. Its part of the whole cult of human involvment in climate change (CHIICC) where is you don't jump in the cult you are a nut job - regardless of the science. Humans do not understand the global environment enough to know if human interaction with it is having a global effect. -(Sorry serano wrong wrong wrong, we do understand enough about the worlds past and present clmate changes to clearly show the trend to over all global warming and the trend accelerating. Take of your rose tinted spectacles and smell the destruction of the earth. Sadly some of what you say about kyoto is correct it was to damn wishy washy it need to be a damn sight tougher on all nations and that includes the big polluters china, america, india soon and all the rest, no great shock it was not and people pulled out sad state of affairs when modern advanced sociteies ignore whtas hapening under there nose's for to put it mildly self intrest)

6) Amnesty for illegal immigrants. Well - unlike Regan - he proposed that the illegals pay their back taxes in order to earn amnesty and the the right to APPLY for legal residency. Better than never getting those taxes and keeping them here undocumented. ( wow i find my self agreeing with you damn)

Ok 6 tries 6 fails. Try again. ( plz come back after you have wiped out life on earth, here is a spade go hide yer head in the sand the end is nigh)



The Peace treaty was one he agreed to in order to not get obliterated after we liberated Kuwait. He was in multiple violations with that treaty.

the child health care thing and Rights. It is not part of our American Constitution that our government is supposed to provide health care as a right. and that health care program was targeted at Children only under X income brackets and was not following those restrictions and was even being used for adults which was not what that program was for.

What we don't know about global warming is what impact humans are having on it. There is no doubt in my mind we are living in an era of global warming / climate change. Hurah! The Canadians are poised to become a huge global power! grats to the canuks.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Worff » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:36 pm

What we don't know about global warming is what impact humans are having on it. There is no doubt in my mind we are living in an era of global warming / climate change. Hurah! The Canadians are poised to become a huge global power! grats to the canuks.


Actually it would probably be places like Mexico and Brazil becoming global powers since (as far as theories project) one major effect of global warming is melting glaciers and major changes in the ocean currents, meaning Canada and parts of the US will be under quite a bit of ice hehe it's already cold up there brrrrrr.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby dkofklove » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:56 am

What we don't know about global warming is what impact humans are having on it. There is no doubt in my mind we are living in an era of global warming / climate change. Hurah! The Canadians are poised to become a huge global power! grats to the canuks.

The exact effects we are having are clearly seen in many diffrent areas, we are the ones who are clearly and irefutable pumping so much co2 and other green house gases into the environment, that it has put the global ecology in jepordy. you need only look at the ice cores which have show other warming periods to realise we are the sole cause of this. Most other warming event occur over many thousands of years not 1-200, with a massive increase in the last 100 years. Othere fast global warming events have been global disatours such as super volcano erruptions. we are currently on the brink of a very large cliff and about to step over with the current climate change rates and over all rising of sea temperatures, vast amounts of methane will be released causing to say the least a huge acceleration in the warming of the planet. This over all warming and release of trapped gases is occuring now, and is compounded by areas such as siberia where the permafrost is now no longer permafrost, which has aloud massive biological activity in the organic rich soil. Guess what that produce, thats right co2 and methane. These events are occuring and will increase in a snowball effect, sadly right now what i see is that we will not stop this and can only try to slow it down, we started the ball rolling and have to stand up and take resposibility for what we have done. declaring we dont know how we are affecting he environment is clearly incorrect we do not undderstand 100% our effects, but we do know we are the cause of this rapid warming, and we know why we are the cause. The time to take action is now, you never know we may actualy slow it down enough to find a solution, for our future and our childrens stop think and aste less, every little helps.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Serano » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:03 pm

The major greenhouse gases are water vapor, which causes about 36–70% of the greenhouse effect on Earth (not including clouds); carbon dioxide, which causes 9–26%; methane, which causes 4–9%, and ozone, which causes 3–7%. It is not possible to state that a certain gas causes a certain percentage of the greenhouse effect, because the influences of the various gases are not additive. (The higher ends of the ranges quoted are for the gas alone; the lower ends, for the gas counting overlaps.)[3][4] Other greenhouse gases include, but are not limited to, nitrous oxide, sulfur hexafluoride, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons and chlorofluorocarbons (see IPCC list of greenhouse gases).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Yes - humans contribute to greenhouse gases. what cumulative effect that has on global warming is not verified. If we really want to stop global warming we might want to get those damn humans to stop having the oceans get turned into water vapor by the sun. Wait - thats not our fault.

The bottom line is - that The president of the US is really not responsible for the unknown impact on the global human impact on the environment. and like is well known the Kyoto protocal is a joke. IT is one of the lamest international agreements with sure - great intentions but has so little enforcement or equitable requirements accross countries - the USs disinterest in joining the protocal that treats every nation differant is fine with me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_accord

Most people have not read it. They just figure oh - the US is non-compliant. so the US is terrible. This logic is just silly.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby dkofklove » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:16 am

plz note the figures you quote are the effects of global warming and do not tell you one major thing co2 does 9-23% for a 0.3-0.6 % presence i the envoronment, slight increases = dramatic environmental impact. Methane makes up a tiny proportion so low dont think i have seen a figure, yet does as you say 4%, not surprisingly minute increases also dramatical effect the environment. Both combined have much more effect than water vapour, when compared to presence in the atmosphere. Also a slight increase in overal ocean temperatures = a massive increase in water vapour (snowball effect). Wikipedia is good but does not give you all the story. yes koyoyo was to weak but instead of withdrawing, stand and change it, america withdrew for purly finacial reasons, not because the agreement was weak. (dont get me wrong i agree its way to wishy washy, but was better than nothing. and stated we are trying. Having a major power pull out made others go sod it america isn't why should we, so less was done)
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Bilnick » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:50 am

Yes, we did not enter Kyoto for financial reasons. Great call. The biggest polluter (China) only has to report how much emissions? Lame.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby dkofklove » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:16 am

an intresting point yet still not realy the point. The point is something needs done and at some point people have to stand up and do it, even if its a crapy wishy washy treaty like koyot its a start an opens the channels for further gain in those areas now those doors are closed.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Bilnick » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:17 am

I think the whole problem with the greenhouse effect is that there is a very reactionary doomsday attitude.

We know we are putting more CO2 into the atmosphere, and that it likely causes global warming. How much? What are the long term effects? We have all seen the 100 year projections and they vary. What about even longer term? History tells us that we are near the end of a in between ice age warming trend. Is it possible that we may be delaying or preventing an ice age? Remember 25 years or so ago when scientists were telling us a new ice age was looming?

It seems to me the whole issue is like, OMG OMG the earth is warming!!!! we gotta do SOMETHING! without any real plan. Kyoto is a perfect example. How can you expect the US to accept the treaty to reduce the level of emissions when the other biggest producers of greenhouse gasses (China, India) have almost zero responsibility? Economics does come into play in these situations. It has to. Lets see a treaty that treats every country equally. If the US has to reduce emissions by 5%, so should England, Mexico, China, or Canada. but you say the US and China are the biggest offenders. Correct. Then our 5% reduction will be larger than Canada's 5% reduction.
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Lyannah » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:58 pm

Doing something > doing nothing

regardless of what other countries are doing. The US shouldn't disregard their emission reduction recommendations because they don't agree with other countries recommendations. Saying we don't want to lower greenhouse gases because others don't have to is just stupid.

What happened to leading by example?
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Bilnick » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:07 pm

Even if leading by example requires shooting your (economy) self in the foot? No thanks, I prefer to have a job. Competition from countries like China and Mexico is bad enough, I see no reason to help them take even more jobs from the US. (and other developed countries)
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Re: W signs 35 mpg bill.

Postby Serano » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:29 pm

The US has NOT disregarded emissions. We don't know for sure emisision are causing climate change. Yet we are doing things to reduce them. What we are not doing is tying our hands to a global program that treats the US unfairly.
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