Military Training Should be Mandatory

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Military Training Should be Mandatory

Postby Ceruis » Wed May 09, 2007 3:23 pm

I've suddenly found myself with some time. Since I get bored easy I've decided to write some short "essays." This will serve two purposes for me. One, help me get back into the frame of mind necessary for answering college questions. Secondly and far more important, to waste time. It will also let me unwind a little by thinking of other things. Feel free to give input if you like. Have fun! Alan


Military Training Should be Mandatory

I think military training should be mandatory for all physically able high school and college students because it will expose young adults to the military which is not very well understood by today’s society. About 2.8% of today’s society has actively participated in the military and many top leader of this country have no military service at all. This presents a dangerous gap between the military which is entrusted to defend our country and civilian population who takes such protection for granted.

What do I mean by mandatory military training for all high school and college students? I mean that every high school student should attend no less than a 9 week course in basic combat instruction and every college student would be required to take a semester of ROTC to graduate. This will give students a basic understanding of the United States Military and how it functions while also teaching them a little discipline with the additional benefit of providing basic infrastructure for an emergency expansion of the military in time of crisis.

If such a measure was taken how would we turn it into reality? Since there is no existing infrastructure to handle number of trainees we could start by using the National Guard training camps in each state. We could expand those camps using inexpensive structures that are durable such as the National Guard barracks still seen on several military bases to houses trainees. Expanded rifle ranges are relatively inexpensive to construct as are training sites where basic military skills will be acquired. The major cost will be modern accommodations for the permanent party which would include medical facilities, family housing, and barracks for the single soldiers.

Another problem would be finding the necessary training cadre to staff these facilities. I believe currently there is a large group of mid level noncommissioned officers who have multiple deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan that would leap at the opportunity for stabilization in a non-deployable unit. They can be put into the same pipeline that produces drill sergeant. Additional training facilities for Drill Sergeant School would have to be found, but after the initial start up phase it would not be too difficult.

The plan would have serve opposition from three groups if it was to come into effect. The most severe problem would come from the universities over having to institute a military program on campus. Most professors, or so I’m told since I don’t know any, actively dislike the military. Some dislike the military because it discriminates against homosexual. Other dislikes the military because they have protested the institution so long it only natural for them to continue (Vietnam era fakes who are utterly contemptible). Then there are the genuine pacifists who believe that having a military force is wrong and that all problems should be solved through diplomacy. Those universities that refuse to add the course to the curriculum should be shutdown. The response is a little extreme, but it will close most of the loopholes that are bound to happen. Opposition from the students and parents can be dealt with by making it illegal for the students to have a driver’s license, receive federal aid, or register for college.

How would we finance this program? Doing away with most of the pork in legislation would be a place to start. Allocating more money to the military by purging some of the more useless programs the government funds would be another place to look. Also divesting or at least cutting down on the military’s huge civilian contractor force would free up additional funds. Even with the emergency funding the military been receiving since the war on terror began it still accounts for less than 5% of GNP.

To summarize, I believe the gap between the civilian population and it military is too wide. Most Americans have no idea what it means to serve and that lack of knowledge could prove fatal in a true national emergency for the country. The solution, though a “hardship” for today’s youth, would be easily attainable and relatively inexpensive to implement. Not only would the civilian population gain a better understanding of the military, but the added security of an infrastructure ready to train a large number personnel in an emergency situation.
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Postby EQIsenhart » Wed May 09, 2007 4:19 pm

While I do agree alot of high school kids need some sort of military training it definetly isn't for everyone. I benefited alot from my military school days but not every joe can 1. handle it 2. benefit from it. So I am no way against military, know that. You did not give very many "why" everyone should have military training, that would be where people argue. If this country was in a crisis which from many different points of view it already is! However it would be good for all kids at a young age all the way up to be required to participate in some sort of physical activity such as running and exercising like the military does do. As far as combat training with weapons and other explosives I certainly don't see the need for every citizen to learn these types of skills. For only a 9 week course and never to do with anything in the military again in this society are we really benefiting from teaching a 19 year old kid to shoot assault rifles and throw grenades and he not be in the military?

Military societys operate on a bureaucratic leadership style it can also be exampled in a quasi military environment meaning the rules above all else even when the rules are not the best for the situation or circumstance. Which again is DEFINETLY not for everyone, in these types of societys there are lots of discretion on everything. what a civilian knows about the military on writing and in textbooks is almost completely different than what a military man knows about it. If my tone sounds anti military its not, I am anti our military leaders and have been around military all my life, I certainly know more about military culture than the average joe too. Forcing this upon everyone will not work. I think a good middle ground would be improving what we do have. all the skills the military does teach such as team work, motivation, physical training, discipline,can be taught in a non military way, swirled into at most quasi military environment would be the best way to reach out to youth today.
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Postby lerchinc » Wed May 09, 2007 5:11 pm

All I can say is WOW.

It took me two tries to respond to this...but here ya go....

What do I mean by mandatory military training for all high school and college students? I mean that every high school student should attend no less than a 9 week course in basic combat instruction and every college student would be required to take a semester of ROTC to graduate. This will give students a basic understanding of the United States Military and how it functions while also teaching them a little discipline with the additional benefit of providing basic infrastructure for an emergency expansion of the military in time of crisis


Ok what is the difference between this and a draft. If your goal is to give students a basic understanding of how the military works when and provide and infrastructure in a time of crisis institute a draft. What the problem is these days is frankly the leadership. If we had an effective leader that honestly believed in what he was doing he would institute the draft. As it stands right now politicians these days are too worried about the next election rather than what is right for the country. If the republicans honestly had the testitcular fortitude of their convictions they would institute the draft and end this quickly.

If such a measure was taken how would we turn it into reality? Since there is no existing infrastructure to handle number of trainees we could start by using the National Guard training camps in each state. We could expand those camps using inexpensive structures that are durable such as the National Guard barracks still seen on several military bases to houses trainees. Expanded rifle ranges are relatively inexpensive to construct as are training sites where basic military skills will be acquired. The major cost will be modern accommodations for the permanent party which would include medical facilities, family housing, and barracks for the single soldiers


This is really frightening. While expanding the military is not something that I am against on its face this is just nuts. :) (no offense intended) You are almost getting biblical here man. Manditory conscription. When the framers wrote the Consititution they put together a very effective method by which to raise an army. AGAIN THE DRAFT! While the need for some structure in the life of our youth is a tantilizing arguement pushing mandiditory conscription isnt the way to go. Its just a cop out. I am not grade A number one parent. I have my faults. I have my bad days. But I know the kids my kids hang out with and play with. I monitor what they watch on TV. I dont need the government imposing morals and discipline on my kids. People need to be taking responsiblity for themselves and their children.

The plan would have serve opposition from three groups if it was to come into effect. The most severe problem would come from the universities over having to institute a military program on campus. Most professors, or so I’m told since I don’t know any, actively dislike the military. Some dislike the military because it discriminates against homosexual. Other dislikes the military because they have protested the institution so long it only natural for them to continue (Vietnam era fakes who are utterly contemptible). Then there are the genuine pacifists who believe that having a military force is wrong and that all problems should be solved through diplomacy. Those universities that refuse to add the course to the curriculum should be shutdown. The response is a little extreme, but it will close most of the loopholes that are bound to happen. Opposition from the students and parents can be dealt with by making it illegal for the students to have a driver’s license, receive federal aid, or register for college.


yea they did this once in history....Nazi Germany. See how well that worked out :)

How would we finance this program? Doing away with most of the pork in legislation would be a place to start. Allocating more money to the military by purging some of the more useless programs the government funds would be another place to look. Also divesting or at least cutting down on the military’s huge civilian contractor force would free up additional funds. Even with the emergency funding the military been receiving since the war on terror began it still accounts for less than 5% of GNP.


While I agree with alot of this ask yourself what what we are funding in the military. Again I am not the most knowledgeable but Star Wars? That was dreamed up for the Russians.

In the end I agree that the youth of today and hell society needs to "sacrifce" for this "war on terror." We as a society have not been asked to sacrifce for this "war". If were going to do it lets jump in with both feet and wedge a foot up someones ass and turn that place into a big sheet of glass that we go crack everyonce in awhile when they act up. Lets go start fights for the right reasons. And last but not least...lets get people in power in the highest office in the land that care about what is going on. Cause honestly people the man is bored....he got bored with oil and bought a baseball team...he got bored with the baseball team and because governor....he got bored with governor and became president....thank god hes got no where to go but down :)
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hmm

Postby bill » Wed May 09, 2007 5:31 pm

I believe Israel has something like you are discussing here Cer.
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slight disagreement

Postby Aenodili » Wed May 09, 2007 5:55 pm

My son is 16. He just signed up for ROTC for a branch of the armed services. I thought, at first it was one branch, but apparently you can do the officer course with any of them.

Do I think all people need military training that are in highschool? NO

I know many that are not so inclinded. Handicapped are unable to participate. Mental and physical issues prevent others. It might bring some order to lives...but what type of life are you proposing?

A life where every moment is in constant vigilance and training in how to cope with issues that do not exist in everyday society. One needs not fear for his or her safety. One needs not act with honorable automation that everything they do is for the voice of freedom or democracy.

I would state that one learning to control a situation can be better for some. Learning how to function in extreem circumstances would be a much valued tool for some youngsters. However, this honestly doesn't work in real life.

I mean come on. If you don't get your order right at the drive thru, you just can't barge in and demand that they drop and give you 20!~ You can't do KP duty just because your taxes were due or because you were a day late on your car payment.

Real life doesn't function like that.

I will say that I am going to support my son in his decision. I know that it is his life to live and his choices to make. If this gives him the drive and the education he feels necessary to have in his life to make others lives more complete, I will definately defend him and those with him that serve so valantly.

I, personally, have the utmost respect for most in the military. They do a damn hard and almost thankless job with little to show for it in the grand scheme of things. They put their lives on the line daily to strengthen the belief that if someone's freedoms are taken that they are the elite police to enforce and supply the channels necessary to continue life for those oppressed often living in a very volitale location.

My personal opinion and feelings is against to having anyone being programmed into acting as if death, destruction and the use of force is to gain glory and honor. That seems too much like a "cultish", "gansta" or "mafia" mindset.

I strongly have the mental image, (well established image too) that some religions, societies, families, employments, propoganda, military areas, cliks and group of people for these are way beyond the realm of normalicy and border on the criminally insane.

I have seen enough "regimental forces", "cults", "gangs" and or "families" that the title "mafia" would be damn close to description that institutes with the teaching that harm must fall before peace and tranquility can be achieved.

Heck, I think we all have seen evidence to this on the news. If you haven't seen this also, then you deny the truth of how the world really is to yourself and I wish you a happy life in your fantasies.

I honestly believe that compromise and working for a common goal is easier then making a "perfect" human or society. Frankly, there is no such thing as a utopian society for all.

I don't agree with you Alan that all are or should be subjected to a militant life. But, I respect your opinion and agree that for some...perhaps it would be a most positive outlet. Yet to others, I see a breeding ground for violent and cruelity that would be lethal to society as a whole.

I just have to say...a little spanking, groundment, and teaching of morals and respect to all would just be best for the younger populace to be raised within.

Then again, that is just my 2 cents.
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Postby Goofydoofy » Wed May 09, 2007 7:50 pm

Military "training" being mandatory I could go for. To many little bastards out there are not taught how to respect reality by their parents anymore. People in general are complete idiots nowadays.

Having to "serve" in the military should not be mandatory. I would not wish my child to fight something that a fool has started. It should be the individuals choice if they feel the cause is just.
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Postby Bilnick » Wed May 09, 2007 8:13 pm

It amazes me with what parents let thier kids get away with today. A litle more strict and regimented training might not be a bad idea for the kids, but parents too.

One of my wife's co-worker's family was over. Thier kids are climbing on my couch, playing catch in front of my big screen TV, etc. I keep waiting for the parents to say something and after having this little shit climb on my furniture for 5 minutes I tell him to get down. The mother chirps in, Oh he is such a climber, we cant keep him off of anything! Here is an idea, how about a smack on the ass if he doesnt get down after the first warning?

A while ago at my wife's high school (she is a math and science teacher) some kids skipped a class and went out for a long lunch. They were caught. As part of thier punishment the kids were suspended from participating on the golf team for 2 weeks. Just so happens the state finals are during those two weeks, and one of the kids who was caught was one of the best golfers on the team. So what do his parents do? Instead of kicking the kids ass and letting him face the consequences for his actions, they raise a big stink and go in front of the school board, get a story in the local paper, etc. Unbelievable. The school had some balls and held thier ground. If I had done something like that my dad would have been yelling at me and punishing me further, rather than try and get my punishment lessened.

Oh well.

I would be against any mandatory service, whether it is in the military, peace corps or whatever.
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Postby Antok » Wed May 09, 2007 8:35 pm

The obvious issue that would have to be dealt with is gangs - I can guarantee that there are people in my school who would obediently soak up military training, and then use it for criminal purposes.

Besides that, I'm kind of torn on this. The extra discipline and training in something would certainly be a good thing for many students. One of my classes had a sub today - after role was taken, nine students walked out to smoke pot, and three or four to do heroin or coke. We had an extra regular level class in one of our rooms earlier because someone had started a fire in their room, apparently their teacher had been ecstatic the entire day (since before le fire.) someone yelled out "WHOA, ms. _____, did you finally get laid?" so yeah, extra discipline-teaching stuff in high school would not be a bad thing =p

yea they did this once in history....Nazi Germany. See how well that worked out Smile

Godwin's Law, you lose.

Besides, ignoring Godwin's... for every nation that has done this that has had bad things happen after, there is a positive. Sweden has mandatory military training, and every man of military age is required to keep, at home, an assault rifle. They have a murder rate something like 2 per 100,000 inhabitants - one third the US's
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Postby Furlistab » Wed May 09, 2007 8:50 pm

NOTE: My views are strongly Canadian and therefore pacifist.

Anyone that has seen war would not wish that on anyone. Though I understand the military is a good way to teach discipline, I feel that teaching kids about the art of war is not the best for them. I thought wars were fought so that kids didnt have to see violence?
Maybe I need to be more pragmatic.

Why is it so important that our kids know how the military works?

"Did you know that 99% of the population has never been in the dental health profession."

Should we make dental training manditory? After all, all those bastard kids who DONT BRUSH THEIR TEETH?!
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Postby lerchinc » Wed May 09, 2007 9:04 pm

Godwin's Law, you lose.

Besides, ignoring Godwin's... for every nation that has done this that has had bad things happen after, there is a positive. Sweden has mandatory military training, and every man of military age is required to keep, at home, an assault rifle. They have a murder rate something like 2 per 100,000 inhabitants - one third the US's


Godwins Law is crap. Our poverty rate is almost 9 times that of Sweden. Health care I think is paid for. And guess what they have a big focus on the family. I remember reading somewhere for example that when you have a baby over there both parents can go on materity leave for some obscene amount of time. AGAIN THE FOCUS ON THE FAMILY. Guns dont matter its the people behind the guns.
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Postby Antok » Wed May 09, 2007 9:08 pm

lerchinc wrote:
Godwin's Law, you lose.

Besides, ignoring Godwin's... for every nation that has done this that has had bad things happen after, there is a positive. Sweden has mandatory military training, and every man of military age is required to keep, at home, an assault rifle. They have a murder rate something like 2 per 100,000 inhabitants - one third the US's

Guns dont matter its the people behind the guns.

exactly.

wait for it.

wait for it.

wait for it.

which is why a comparison to nazi germany is dumb.
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Postby EQIsenhart » Wed May 09, 2007 9:23 pm

I remember reading somewhere for example that when you have a baby over there both parents can go on materity leave for some obscene amount of time.


This is true and true for Denmark as well but nothing to do with mandatory military service :)
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Postby Serano » Wed May 09, 2007 11:37 pm

When the framers wrote the Constitution they put together a very effective method by which to raise an army. AGAIN THE DRAFT!


The framers of the US Constitution (Essentially Madison, Jay and Hamilton) granted Congress the power to raise armies no actual process was indicated - not one preventing conscription nor proscribing it.

If the republicans honestly had the testicular fortitude of their convictions they would institute the draft and end this quickly.


I don't understand what this is saying. Instituting a draft in the US wouldn't' actually solve any particular perceived problem. It would simply flood the roles of the military with individuals who have not volunteered to be there. This would expand our roles greater than we have an authorization or need for. That is this was a universal mandatory conscription. Doing a lottery draft like they had prior to 1975 would then not give every one the same American conscription but would have a random sampling of peeps that didn't want to be there in the service.

The US has too large a population to support universal conscription and a lottery based Draft is not in line with Americanism thus neither would present anything positive.

Meanwhile - Israel has mandatory 1-2 year conscription for all of its high school graduates (or when they turn 18 if they have stopped going to High school) with exceptions granted to women who marry immediately after high school and a select group of brains that get drafted into civil service of a non-military nature.
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Postby Naiin » Thu May 10, 2007 12:26 am

/snicker .. you were bored weren't you?

Switzerland does the same thing as Israel.. /shrug.. move if you dont like it hehe.

Conscription = get in service or go to jail
Draft = get in service or go to jail

Whats the difference other than symantics?

Yamamoto said it best about our country when being congratulated on his victory at Pearl Harbor " I fear we have pulled the tail of a sleeping tiger."
If military service is seen as a just and needed cause ppl will flock by the millions to go... in 6 months to a year.. you have a formidible force.. nvm the red necks w/ assault riffles at home..

You cant legislate social behavior, it just drives the "deviant" behavior underground.. and you cant tell people how to raise their children.. you get stiff resistance.

Is the military good if you want to learn/live a disciplined life with a structure laid out for you to excel in.. YES

Is this good for everyone... NO

Ppl spoke of the founding fathers above... Ben Franklin said " Anyone who would sacrifice liberty in exchange for security will soon lose them both and deserves neither." Had a good chuckle on this tho =P
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Postby Kathar » Thu May 10, 2007 1:22 am

Bilnick wrote:It amazes me with what parents let thier kids get away with today. A litle more strict and regimented training might not be a bad idea for the kids, but parents too.

One of my wife's co-worker's family was over. Thier kids are climbing on my couch, playing catch in front of my big screen TV, etc. I keep waiting for the parents to say something and after having this little shit climb on my furniture for 5 minutes I tell him to get down. The mother chirps in, Oh he is such a climber, we cant keep him off of anything! Here is an idea, how about a smack on the ass if he doesnt get down after the first warning?


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