New rules for ALTS/BOXES bidding (caped at 20 now)

[Serano]

1) Boxes and alts must add (alt) or (box) behind their bid. Example:

Taniquel tells the guild ' 20 (box) '

2) Alts and Boxes may out bid each other over 20. If this occurs and at any time past 20 - a main wishes to bid - their bid is 21 and defeats any bids above 20 by alts or boxes. Example:

Taniquel tells the guild ' 20 (box)'

Mesohawnee tells the guild '21 (Alt) '

Soon tells the guild ' 25 (box)'

Argo tells the guild '21'

Ranjaling tells the guild '21 to argo for The Orb of Infinite Wonder going once...

The reason for the above rules are so that Both the officers and the newer members that might not be familiar with who is a box or an alt - is sure who they are bidding against. A main Still MUST OUTBID a box or an alt for loot under 20 DKP in order to win. however a main will automatically outbid any box for any loot that goes over 20 DKP.

We feel that any loot that is going for under 20 DKP is low enough quality for an alt or box to be eligible to bid for it without "stealing" it from a new member. I know that I as a person that bids for BOX loot - pass on some Low DKP upgrades all the time when a NEW member is bidding on a low item - because I know that a new member may not have earned as much DKP and want them to gear up on the cheap, if possible, to be a better equiped raider.

Also - there have been times when alts and box players know that the magic number for a bid is 20 and will automatically beat all other boxes and alts. I saw this recently when I won an item on Taniquel by trumping all other boxes and alts by bidding 20 first. Since the 20 DKP limit was proposed and created in order to limit the flow of the highest caliber loot to alts and boxes instead of to mains - but never really was intended to keep loot away from fellow alts and boxes this adjustment will allow for the rare times when a box or alt are both interested in an item and no main is and they are willing to bid over 20. At any time in the alt/box bidding over 21 - a main can win the item by bidding 21 - regardless of what the current bidding is. which is another reason for all alt box bids having (alt) or (box) behind them so that all mains are sure that they can outbid them.

THis practice will be new and DKP loot officers will mentor it to box and alt players as we get started with it - but expect shortly that any box / alt bid that doesn't have (alt) or (box) behind it will not be acknowledged. And if you ask why your bid wasn't commented on you will be refered to this policy.

remember these two policies are here to HELP both mains and the alt/box players with loot decisions.

Feel free to comment or argue about this policy and we will consider the comments like always.


http://tribalfury.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3685

m1)Boxes and alts must add (alt) or (box) behind their bid.
m2)Alts and Boxes may out bid each other over 20. If this occurs and at any time past 20 - a main wishes to bid - their bid is 21 and defeats any bids above 20 by alts and boxes.

[urtasil]

Good thinking i like the rule and think it makes sence

[lerchinc]

Again just being the devils advocate here but you might want to define a box. Take for instance Isen playing me. If hes playing me and not himself am I a box cause im not playing?

I dont know im probably nitpicking here but just trying to come up with all the possiblities that someone could complain that hey are being mistreated.

[Jahras]

For DKP purposes, a Boxed toon is one that is CURRENTLY being boxed by another player at that raid

Yes, when boxing someone else's main, they are treated exactly like any other boxed toon for anything that has to do with DKP.

[Caeliel]

Makes Sense.

[lerchinc]

thats cool. Like I said just trying to knock holes now before someone complains later

[Horcrux]

If someone is boxing someone elses main, whether for a flag or as a required class, can/should they be spending that persons DKP on items?

[Zyzzerzazz]

If approved with the owner and boxer I think thats ok /shrug

[Antok]

there has been something somewhere in the DKP rules saying it was okay with the owner's consent. I don't remember where exactly, but I dug it up around the time I first joined TF.

[Jahras]

Yes its been stated that with the owners approval, a boxed main can bid on items like a normal box can, been doing that since we were in ssra.

[Serano]

immediately below what Jah already quoted

m) Boxed toons can bid on items against the other raiders by whoever is currently boxing them if the real owner (you or the player you are boxing for) allows for this bidding with a cap of 20 DKP per item.

with constant care and maintenance our Raid point rules have become quite the catch all.

[Antok]

At what point though does membership of a char transfeer and the DKP needs to be removed? My point coming from antok bidding with weedwacker on an aug tonight in Anguish when weedwacker has been MIA for quite a while. Then again, I might not know specifics, but it would clear things up if I did.

Weedwaker is not my character. I'm not paying for his subscription, and weed is actively using the account (admittedly, on vanguard.)

90% of the DKP for all weed's toons was from me boxing them - and thus, wouldn't need to be removed anyway.

[Serano]

At what point though does membership of a char transfer and the DKP needs to be removed? My point coming from antok bidding with weedwacker on an aug tonight in Anguish when weedwacker has been MIA for quite a while. Then again, I might not know specifics, but it would clear things up if I did.

Weedwaker is not my character. I'm not paying for his subscription, and weed is actively using the account (admittedly, on vanguard.)

90% of the DKP for all weed's toons was from me boxing them - and thus, wouldn't need to be removed anyway.

This is a topic that has come up before with toons changing hands. Until a toon has officially changed hands we have no precedent for zeroing out DKP on a toon that is still owned and played by the original owner at some point. a few times in the past - a box (or main for that matter) that has officially changed hands has been zeroed out. In the case of a toon that hasn't been flagged to the officers as changing hands or /de-guilding from TF - I don't know how closely we can police those point totals.

which is why

by whoever is currently boxing them if the real owner (you or the player you are boxing for) allows for this bidding

is written the way it is.

Should the policy be tighter? maybe. Do we know what the right way to go is? Not me presently. If Isen boxes Lerch 35 DKP - Isen can only bid up to 20 DKP for Lerch on any loot. Lerch can log on for a raid and then bid 35 or more DKP for an item with no issues. Once on a raid I was boxing Deluin - and an item dropped he wanted. I don't remember if I busted the 20 DKP cap or if we had it in place at the time - or if I bid less - but I wasn't going to bid for him except he logged on an alt and saw the loot and asked me to bid so I did and won. But that was cause I was not familiar enough with his loot goals and so wasn't thinking of what to bid on him for or had we discussed how to bid his DKP if X dropped.

Whats the answer I don't know.

[Horcrux]

Sorry, had deleted that post cause after I posted it, I tried to scroll up to make sure it had actually happened (since my logs were off) and couldn't find it, so figured I might have dreamed it.... But, guess it did happen heh. Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning these things in a bad way, I'm just trying to not be ignorant.

[lerchinc]

Im right there with ya Hor. I have ADD and have a tendency to skim So I ask alot of questions that have probably been answered before.