No Saddam link to Iraq al-Qaeda

Want to talk politics, religion, opinion, or Current events? go here.

Moderator: Officers

Postby Lyannah » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:34 pm

Bilnick wrote:Killing these terrorists is the ONLY way to deal with them.

Remember these are people who are willing to hijack a plane loaded with people and fly it into a building. These are people willing to strap bombs to thier wives and children and send them to a crowded area and blow them up.

Saddam Hussein gassed thousands and thousands of his own people. Tortured people for meaningless reasons.

There is no negotiating with these "people".

It is unfortunate that much of the free world is afraid to stand up and fight these people. It is far easier to criticize those that do make mistakes rather than stick your own neck on the line isn't it?


America has to learn that not every problem can be solved with their overinflated military budget. You need to reduce the number of people with a terrorist mindset - ie figure out why they are pissed and sort through it. You seem to think these are just crazy people blowing shit up for the fun of it, but they aren't. Saddam may have been power drunk and paranoid, and its good he's been locked up; but these terrorists aren't. They have a cause they are willing to die for, and you need to work through their issues or more attacks will occur.

A war will not accomplish an end to terrorism.
User avatar
Lyannah
Member
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:14 am
Location: Down Under

Postby Keld » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:44 pm

They wont "work through their issues" unfortunately. There mission is it SLAY the infidel, no mercy involved, and I would show no mercy to some piece of shit that would cut off the head of my comrade or fellow American and show it on tape... really, I would show no remorse. People die, either you and your friends, or the terrorist and his buddies.

Terrorism will not end from a war, and definitely not from negotiations. Why would you negotiate with murderers? They dream of murdering YOU and ME, our family and our friends.

Theres no glory in war. :?
Image

Image
Image
Keld
Member
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:58 pm
Location: Woodbridge, Virginia

Postby Reck » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:02 pm

This has been a great dicussion just wanted to thank everyone for putting thier thoughts to work, this is always my goal is to have poeple have an opinion and not be afraid to speak it. keep it up.
User avatar
Reck
Member
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:10 am
Location: Salmon Valley, BC, Canada

Postby Lyannah » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:26 pm

Keld wrote:Why would you negotiate with murderers? They dream of murdering YOU and ME, our family and our friends.


Unfortunately they see americans in the same light as you see them. They are NOT crazy people who dream of killing. They are now doing whatever they can to fight the war, and seeing as they have no army to tackle your own, they use their own tactics in an atempt to drive you out.

Granted we can't sit them all down and have a nice chat to put their minds at ease, but the war is not solving anything. As I said earlier, this whole problem needs a new approach.
User avatar
Lyannah
Member
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:14 am
Location: Down Under

Postby Bilnick » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:01 am

Lyannah wrote:
Unfortunately they see americans in the same light as you see them. They are NOT crazy people who dream of killing. They are now doing whatever they can to fight the war, and seeing as they have no army to tackle your own, they use their own tactics in an atempt to drive you out.




I wonder what they think will happen when they strap vests full of explosives on and ignite it?

These kind of things do not happen in the United States or Canada or Austrailia on a daily basis do they?
User avatar
Bilnick
Officer
 
Posts: 5494
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Saline, Michigan

What's the old saying?

Postby Redeemed » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:45 pm

Democracy is the worst form of goverment, except all the others? :jester
Image
Image

*Barelron*
~~ 75 Cleric ~~
*Liquidator*
~~ 83 Berserker ~~

"A raid wipe is nothing more than a Beautiful Disaster"
Redeemed
 
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:32 pm

Postby Naiin » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:22 pm

Democracy is the worst form of goverment, except all the others?


Winston Churchill circa 1945.... studgity old coddger.... but he knew how to rally his people
Image
The Way of the soft and yielding overcomes the Way of the strong and hard,
yet few are the number of those who follow this Way. -Tao Te Ching
Image
User avatar
Naiin
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:42 pm

Postby Lyannah » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:27 pm

Bilnick wrote:
Lyannah wrote:
Unfortunately they see americans in the same light as you see them. They are NOT crazy people who dream of killing. They are now doing whatever they can to fight the war, and seeing as they have no army to tackle your own, they use their own tactics in an atempt to drive you out.




I wonder what they think will happen when they strap vests full of explosives on and ignite it?

These kind of things do not happen in the United States or Canada or Austrailia on a daily basis do they?


Bil they are not only prepared to die for their cause, they are wanting to. They believe that their actions will result in rich rewards in the afterlife. Does this make them crazy? Maybe in your eyes it does - and this would be because no sort of belief system is so embedded in american culture. They believe it is an honour to die for their cause, so of course they have no problem doing what they are doing.

I repeat: They are NOT crazy, they think differently to you. And a war will NOT end the current issues.
User avatar
Lyannah
Member
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:14 am
Location: Down Under

Postby Naiin » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:54 pm

Lyannah wrote:
Bilnick wrote:
Lyannah wrote:
Unfortunately they see americans in the same light as you see them. They are NOT crazy people who dream of killing. They are now doing whatever they can to fight the war, and seeing as they have no army to tackle your own, they use their own tactics in an atempt to drive you out.




I wonder what they think will happen when they strap vests full of explosives on and ignite it?

These kind of things do not happen in the United States or Canada or Austrailia on a daily basis do they?


Define "THEY"... you guys are speaking about 10% of a general populace. Most Sunnis and Shi'a are good honest people that want to raise children and follow their beliefs, just like the rest of us. These few that are truley willing to fling themselves into "martyrdom" are recruited by people that have no interest in Islam other than what they can gain on the backs of the ignorant and mentally ill.

Bil they are not only prepared to die for their cause, they are wanting to. They believe that their actions will result in rich rewards in the afterlife. Does this make them crazy? Maybe in your eyes it does - and this would be because no sort of belief system is so embedded in american culture. They believe it is an honour to die for their cause, so of course they have no problem doing what they are doing.

I repeat: They are NOT crazy, they think differently to you. And a war will NOT end the current issues.


Define "THEY"... you guys are speaking about 10% of a general populace. Most Sunnis and Shi'a are good honest people that want to raise children and follow their beliefs, just like the rest of us. These few that are truley willing to fling themselves into "martyrdom" are recruited by people that have no interest in Islam other than what they can gain on the backs of the ignorant and mentally ill. "They" didnt seem willing to throw themselves willy-nilly to their dooms in Afghanistan after their "fearless leader" skeee-dattled to Pakistan. No, instead "they" surrendered in droves. So much for martyrdom... this indicates the footsoldiers are less likely than "their" leaders indicate to be ready to die for the cause. Bring $$ and prosperity to the region and you will win their hearts... I cant think of a single rational man that given the choice of death or prosperity that picks death over seeing their childern grow up and all that entails. "They " have been lied to and think "they" are doing what it takes to bring prosperity back to their region. Just as men flocked to the Wehrmacht in 1937. Few of those men hated Jews, as has been recorded and documented. These fighters in Iraq are numbering 10000-15000 from latest news reports (yes I realized the news is manipulated to represent the editors/producers PoV), from all over the world. Whats the worlds population of Muslims?? Stop the propaganda machine and you will stop the fighting.

" You dont get a man to toss his life away for a few coins, you must inspire him to fight for you, and then to the death." - Napoleon
Image
The Way of the soft and yielding overcomes the Way of the strong and hard,
yet few are the number of those who follow this Way. -Tao Te Ching
Image
User avatar
Naiin
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:42 pm

Postby Lyannah » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:22 pm

I was careful with my choice of words and never used the word muslim or linked any of their actions to religious causes. Personally I think of these transgressors of terrorist plots and acts similarly to those in a cult, as many of their beliefs had some religious grounding but 're-interpreted' and 're-educated' their followers well beyond the original teachings to become destructive to those involved and those around them. That is of course IMO, and is not my view of the muslim community.

I refer to 'they' as those involved in plotting or executing acts of terror, regardless of race or belief.

Naiin wrote: Bring $$ and prosperity to the region and you will win their hearts... I cant think of a single rational man that given the choice of death or prosperity that picks death over seeing their childern grow up and all that entails.


Couldn't agree more
User avatar
Lyannah
Member
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:14 am
Location: Down Under

Postby Naiin » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:56 am

Yeah, I wasnt clear in what I meant.. I see that now.

I meant these people are claiming to be Muslim and to act on behalf of their religion and beliefs. Even still they are only a small minority of the religon they claim to represent, and therefore cant possibly speak for Muslims as a whole nor should G-Dubb (Bush) be classifying their actions as "Muslim extremists".... cant they just be classified as "extremists". The singling out of Islam as part of the conflict only serves to polute the real issues, which is power, $$, and control of territory and the people within.
Image
The Way of the soft and yielding overcomes the Way of the strong and hard,
yet few are the number of those who follow this Way. -Tao Te Ching
Image
User avatar
Naiin
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:42 pm

hmm

Postby bill » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:01 pm

I am also not a supporter of promotion of democracy in every country, just because the US likes it way it does government, does not mean the rest of the world also has to be that way. Some countries are perfect with Dictatorships, with Communism, with pure socialism.


The problem is most dictatorships and socialist countries can't exist peacefully with other states that are not aligned with their views.

For some reason, this topic feels like it extends beyond all of our spans of knowledge and experiences since we are fundamentally discussing something that has been raging on for literally thousands of years and could possibly be explained as a portion of the human condition itself.

Some say you can only secure peace through war. I wonder if those same people can only achieve love through hate?

Machiavelli reminds me about the difference between love and fear. Love begets hate as fear begets respect/loathing. Was he right? I'm not sure.

At the end of the day, this topic still makes me feel so small and insignificant as a cog in some inexplicably tremendous machine spinning the very Earth on its axis.

If I had access to military intelligence, maybe I would have a more confident opinion but honestly, my opinion on this matter is purely conjecture and at best, all you will get from me is stating that I don't know a damn thing.

I know that everything we've tried in the last 2000 years hasn't worked tho. I bet we have some footage on that somewhere. har har.
User avatar
bill
Member
 
Posts: 12079
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 2:21 pm
Location: Stoneham, MA

hmm

Postby bill » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:01 pm

I am also not a supporter of promotion of democracy in every country, just because the US likes it way it does government, does not mean the rest of the world also has to be that way. Some countries are perfect with Dictatorships, with Communism, with pure socialism.


The problem is most dictatorships and socialist countries can't exist peacefully with other states that are not aligned with their views.

For some reason, this topic feels like it extends beyond all of our spans of knowledge and experiences since we are fundamentally discussing something that has been raging on for literally thousands of years and could possibly be explained as a portion of the human condition itself.

Some say you can only secure peace through war. I wonder if those same people can only achieve love through hate?

Machiavelli reminds me about the difference between love and fear. Love begets hate as fear begets respect/loathing. Was he right? I'm not sure.

At the end of the day, this topic still makes me feel so small and insignificant as a cog in some inexplicably tremendous machine spinning the very Earth on its axis.

If I had access to military intelligence, maybe I would have a more confident opinion but honestly, my opinion on this matter is purely conjecture and at best, all you will get from me is stating that I don't know a damn thing.

I know that everything we've tried in the last 2000 years hasn't worked tho. I bet we have some footage on that somewhere. har har.
User avatar
bill
Member
 
Posts: 12079
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 2:21 pm
Location: Stoneham, MA

Postby Naiin » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:56 pm

At the end of the day, this topic still makes me feel so small and insignificant as a cog in some inexplicably tremendous machine spinning the very Earth on its axis.


Cause we are.... "We are Stardust, we are Clover......got to get ourselves back to the start"
Image
The Way of the soft and yielding overcomes the Way of the strong and hard,
yet few are the number of those who follow this Way. -Tao Te Ching
Image
User avatar
Naiin
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:42 pm

Re: hmm

Postby Worff » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:33 pm

Well said Dran. :)

bill wrote:I know that everything we've tried in the last 2000 years hasn't worked tho. I bet we have some footage on that somewhere. har har.


Heh, one thing is for sure.. the more things have changed in the last 2000 years.. the more they remained the same. Yeah we have all kinds of cool inventions and technology since then, however I fear that has only added to the number of man-made items list that we can covet, collect, and fight wars over.

What's one main thing that has not changed in 2000 years?? Greedy, Selfish, Arrogant, Insensitive, Uncaring, Fat Caviar-Eating Bastards!! Get rid of them rich fuks that got rich on the backs of the poor and most problems will be solved. That is all :)
Worff Makesitso - Magelo | EQPlayers
Image
User avatar
Worff
Webmaster
 
Posts: 5403
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Galveston, Texas
Highscores: 42

PreviousNext

Return to Real Life and Opinion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron