First in a Series of Important Polls Regarding TF Policy

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Should Alts be able to accrue DKP when not requested?

Poll ended at Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:37 pm

Yes, with no restrictions as currently stated in policy.
12
24%
Yes, but only if the alt meets the requirements on a full member (ie. lvl 70 and any future requirements placed)
20
40%
No, only a character requested by the raid leader or a main may accrue DKP.
18
36%
 
Total votes : 50

Postby Nennie » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:42 pm

Worff wrote:I voted no, primarily because of this reason:

: Recruiting policy utilizes a "Raid-seat" system to determine if a certain class is closed. We use this system to round out the needed classes we need to maintain to have adequate forces at most given times. This system is based on MAINs. Say we have 10 warriors, but they all want to play their rangers one night. :P Well those are the only 10 we have as for recruiting purposes, raid seats for warriors are full. (not exact numbers, just illustrating a point) We are a guild of mains, and sometimes seem to have a waiting list for things like raid-ins etc.. it just makes sense to reward mains more richly than alts.


Hit the nail on the head I feel right there. I was always confused on the "Not required to raid at all, but we close application to the guild based on raid attendance." It's like taking 1+2 and trying to equal 4. You're recruited to the guild based on your main. You want to play your alt, that's cool, but i agree with worff that mains should be rewarded more.

Or if not, the class needed are completely hypocritical and should be open and the raid leader fill the raid on who is needed. But that's another can of worms.

I understand the use for it, limit the amount at the raids, but as said, if we are light on warriors, and a warrior main who was recruited as a warrior wants to play an alt, that's cool, just no DKP should be given.

Bleh.

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hehe

Postby bill » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:44 pm

Last things first:

Ceruis, I get the impression you haven't tried to ask ppl to switch toons at raids before. Because your post is awfully idealistic.

We do ask ppl to switch and 98% of the time we get some form of grief about it. Which has brought us to our current situation.

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Option 3 wrote:No, only a character requested by the raid leader or a main may accrue DKP.


Fnord wrote:We're not against alts raiding, only boxes. Everyone needs a break. Our position is just that they should never gain DKP for choosing the alt over the main.


What if we had 0 warriors for an event and requested Waystin. Should Waystin not get DKP? That is what you are telling me.

Fnord wrote:I don't agree with any of the 3 choices.


It seems like you agree with option 3, I am clearly missing something in what you are trying to say Fnord, help me out.
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Postby Serano » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:27 pm

The vocal minority so far.
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Postby Adlewiese » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:43 pm

Before I vote on this issue, are Alts are defined as:

The other characters on the same account as the TF main


???????????
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Postby Serano » Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:12 pm

yes.

Alts are defined as a character that is never played at the same time as a main - it exists on the same account. Boxes are defined as any char that is on a separate account than the main.
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Postby Uilea » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:06 pm

I'm more sympathetic of alts than boxes so I voted yes if you meet the requirements. However that comes with another condition. If the raid leader asks you to change to your main for the success of the raid you must do it.
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Postby Reck » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:14 pm

I always see that famous .5 spot when we have class openings, why dont we make alts app for those .5 openings.

Since I am guessing .5 means a non essential non required raid member.

If their alt does not meet the app requirements then they cant be used on raids and never get dkp until they meet those requirements.

Just a thought.
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Alts

Postby bill » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:31 pm

An alt is any character other than your main. A box is a kind of alt, but special in that it can be played simultaneously.

Like right now, Rtron could show up as only Solarkat, and get DKP on Solarkat. But if he showed up as Rtron with Solarkat, only Rtron would get DKP.

Basically, your main is the character you applied with. Any other character is either an alt or a box.
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Postby Fnord Shoggothslayer » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:10 pm

I'm just more of a glowering dubiously towards everyone Bilnick :)
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Postby Worff » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:44 pm

Reck wrote:I always see that famous .5 spot when we have class openings, why dont we make alts app for those .5 openings.

Since I am guessing .5 means a non essential non required raid member.

If their alt does not meet the app requirements then they cant be used on raids and never get dkp until they meet those requirements.

Just a thought.


Hmm this could be a thought to look more into. Alts could app to fill in the gaps, and/or be in Brun! Brun needs some activity LOL.
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Postby Ceruis » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:11 pm

Old Bill/Way/Dran said (actually typed but who's keeping track):
Ceruis, I get the impression you haven't tried to ask ppl to switch toons at raids before. Because your post is awfully idealistic.


Well, I guess I should of put two and two together to get four, but I failed math. According to The Philospical Inventory I'm far from idealistic, I but thought some of the those question were dorky anyways. I guess it goes back to the Reid Leader configuring the raid. They do whats best for the guild to ensure success so if people wanna be dicks about changing toons then kick them out of the raid for someone else with that class. Seems pretty simple from my perspective, but I haven't been a raid leader so I don't know the other half. But regardless, whatever toon shows up should get dkp for their time. If your going to do anything, limit the amount they can bid on items. It a check to make sure prime loot isn't going to some goofball who's toon sits on the shelf more often than not.
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Postby Serano » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:03 pm

still about 4 days to go on this polls close timer but with 10 17 and 18

I read 10 and 17 as votes for YES to alts getting DKP however with a greater ratio saying must be 70.

so tracking 27 YES to 18 NO atm.
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ok

Postby bill » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:51 pm

Knowing me, I won't be back to the website until Monday to check the final decision from this poll. So i wanted to throw out a quick reminder that if you haven't voted, please do so before the end of the weekend.

Should Alts be able to accrue DKP when not requested?
Yes, with no restrictions as currently stated in policy.
22% [ 11 ]
Yes, but only if the alt meets the requirements on a full member (ie. lvl 70 and any future requirements placed)
39% [ 19 ]
No, only a character requested by the raid leader or a main may accrue DKP.
37% [ 18 ]


48 votes so far with 91 Active raiders in July. So we are hearing from about 53% of the guild so far. That leaves tons of room to make a clear final decision, with things the way they are now, it appears the middle option will prevail.
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Postby Toisrus » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:33 pm

I think the issue is more complicated than the three options permit.

First, I think everyone agrees that the most important thing is for the Raid Leaders to be able to get the toons they need for a successful raid. I often ask the RL who I should bring, Tois or Leebe, and I'm almost always told, "whoever you want." There should never be any grief given to the RL on this issue. Providing the raid with the right mix of toons is a priority. BUT, this is not a dkp issue.

I would be extremely disappointed if I could only get dkp from a raid if I brought Tois or had a special request to bring Leebe. I get bored playing one class all the time. It would make EQ a lot less fun if I could only raid with one class. This is especially true when we are doing backflagging raids. I would not mind asking the RL for permission to bring Leebe (although I do not know if Raid Leaders want to deal with these extra tells).

I know there are a number of considerations at work here. I think they can be worked out. But, I think it would be extreme to change the rules in a way that makes it impractical for alts to gather dkp and improve.
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ok

Postby bill » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:44 am

Well Tois I would say that if you wish to take the stance of discrediting the poll, you should offer up some suggestions of how you could have improved it but alas you only highlighted a weakness.

I am fairly aware of how complex the issue is I think, but again with no corrections I guess I'll never know what complexities I am ignoring.

I don't know how many people feel strongly that alts should be allowed. I do know of some who feel either way and some that feel both ways are ok as long as one is chosen.

That being said, there are 2 hours left to vote and it appears that alts will be attending raids and earning DKP as long as they meet the requirements that mains need to meet in order to attend.

With 50 out of 90ish possible voters, there are only about 2 hours left to this poll if you havent voted yet, this is your last chance.
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