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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:56 pm
by Worff
Yeah, maybe political discussions aren't meant for gaming community lol.

But we're all family kinda, so I imagine points of view are going to surface from time to time. I love America too, I just don't like what its becoming and the price we're having to pay, all so some fat SOB's can get richer and fatter.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:01 pm
by Serano
I miss the good old days when we had a line item veto.

when and where was this?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:06 pm
by Bilnick
Serano wrote:
I miss the good old days when we had a line item veto.

when and where was this?


Hah I thought the same thing Serano.

As far back as I can remember (Reagan presidency) the President has asked for, but been denied a line item veto.

Veto

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:54 pm
by Goofydoofy

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:09 pm
by Serano
DAMN Jjudges. that sucks - didn't know we had it albeit briefly.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:42 pm
by Worff
Interesting article.. hmm maybe it wasn't on the front page for long, I don't remember hearing much about it back then.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:58 pm
by Toisrus
Clinton had the power of the line item veto for a short time until it was declared unconstitutional by the court.

Edit: Never mind. Someone else found that factoid.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:00 pm
by Worff
Heh.. well Clinton was always surrounded by other things that were more interesting to hear about .. maybe I just didnt hear it LOL.

Re: Asshole

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:21 pm
by Forco
Goofydoofy wrote:The government makes it the asshole of big industry for allowing big industry to makes us their asshole. I'd gladly leave if you wanna cover moving costs.


Am I the only one who thinks it is a bad idea to sell our ports to another country? Basically, selling parts of America to another country? Is this not illegal like most of the other shit the people who run this country have tried or done in the last several years? And for what? Money. From other countries and big industry. So, you can love America all you like. I just hope you enjoy the taste of shit everyday of your life. I know I do.

Somebody willing to die for their country? Well, do it then. Why am I reading posts from ya? There is plenty of things that threaten a country other then war. Fly to China or Japan and start killing random people. They are threatening our economy. Kill drug dealers and polluters. Shoot a kid who steals a 5 cent candy from the local store. That kid is undermining the economic stability of this country. Shoot the teachers or parents who have let the kids drops from being 1st in alot of catagories to less then 10th. That is hurting our country. Go to the south and kill some racists. Yea, it still goes on. Make the change you are so fast to say you'd die for. I wonder if I need to put a disclaimer here now incase you actually do it and I'm held responsible. Nah, this is America. I think I have the right to free speech under the assumption people are smart enough to know what is right and what is wrong. Or not. I guess I could say a video game made me do it. Maybe The Sims.


Do do doodooo doodoo doodoo you are now in the Twilight zone.
So it is the parents that LET their children drop.. the student has no responsibility for his lazy ass behavior huh.

Buying and selling is business. Not like big business doesn't also own land in other countries.
Big business is and always will be here. Because yes it IS all about money. We are a capitalist nation. That is what makes us capitalists. Money. It isn't a sainthood. It's about profit. Not a new concept by any means, hell it has been around since people traded cows and goats.
I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions and views, it is a free country, and we do have freedom of speech. But then this is a terrible place to live so maybe they ought to take that away. I do however have a problem with jackasses that do nothing but spout anti american bullcrap because they don't like it.
I would never in a million years pay your way or anyone elses way out or into this country or any other place for that matter, without a good reason. You aint my bitch. In other words if maybe I could make a profit from it, then maybe.
The only diference between us calling ourselves a capitalist country and others not doing so is that at least anyone here can do business and own land and buy and sell freely. Where as in other places it is only a select few that have the right.
In addition I see the core of your problem in that exact same statement you opened with... "I'd gladly leave if you wanna cover moving costs. " Looking for a handout. Gimmee gimmee gimmee, maybe you don't have what it takes to make it on your own you need someone to tell you when to work where to work what to wear and eat, and of course pay your way. So you blame the country for your inadequacies. If you do have what it takes, by all means do it quickly and pay your own damn way out.

Toisrus wrote:Forco wrote, "So damn you get the fuck out if you don't like it."

Forco, take a deep breath. Why so hostile? I don't understand the attitude of some people that if you disagree with them, you are expected to uproot your life and leave all the people and places you love. It is not like those very same people don't have complaints when the other political party is in power. It is like saying, "If you disagree with the guild officers, you should immediately deguild yourself." No free speech, no respect for others, no listening, no tolerance. Instead of a dialogue on issues that need to be addressed, there is overreaction. Bring out the Drama Llama.


Tois
I enjoy a heated discussion as much as anyone but there are some things that are not up for debate, that are not "discussion" topics and that I will not engage in banter over. The subject of anti american propaganda and america bashing is one of them. I choose not to tolerate it along with a lot of other things. I would not accept discussion with anyone who holds the position that beating his wife is okay if the government wouldn't get in the way, same goes for a person who would say it is fun to rape women. I would deck him on the spot. If that is hostility then yes. I am hostile. The problem is I don't have a problem with my point of view, I wholeheartedly stand on what I believe, and if that belief requires action then so be it. I think anyone who sits there putting down this great nation in such a way is a coward and a loser. I think it is paramount to being a terrorist, because oddly enough those are the things they say. I would have no pity on one of them and I certainly dislike his statements. Guess what I have the freedom of speech too.
This goes beyond a discussion of who is in power and beyond topics and issues at hand.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:52 pm
by Worff
OMG Forco... How can you sit there and call anti-capitalist anti-american? America is a democracy. It's corp giants that are capitalist. Then in turn compare it to grizzly things like wife beating and rape and terrorism?. You gotta be kidding me. What people want is fairness, not for rich guys to be poor or something stupid. Blindly supporting them or anyone for that matter just because they are popular in the country you live in is crazy. Also not giving a shit about the unethical parts just because you profit from it is pretty scary.

Sorry, but that rhetoric and propaganda you just thoughtlessly spit out cannot go unadressed. Maybe try rephrasing your opinion if I misunderstood.

Or maybe we should get back to gaming instead.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:59 pm
by Uilea
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

politics are doubleplusgood!

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:20 pm
by Forco
Worff wrote:OMG Forco... How can you sit there and call anti-capitalist anti-american? America is a democracy. It's corp giants that are capitalist. Then in turn compare it to grizzly things like wife beating and rape?. You gotta be kidding me. What people want is fairness, not for rich guys to be poor or something stupid. Blindly supporting them or anyone for that matter just because they are popular in the country you live in is crazy. Also not giving a shit about the unethical parts just because you profit from it is pretty scary.

Sorry, but that rhetoric you just thoughtlessly spit out cannot go unadressed. Maybe try rephrasing your opinion if I misunderstood.
Or maybe we should get back to gaming instead.


Perhaps you misunderstood. I do not see my point in your presentation of what I said. I did not thoughtlessly spit anything out. I do not see any part of my post that says ignore unethical parts. However, who defines ethical? You? That jackass? No, I don' think so. The majority does. I don't think I follow anyone who is popular for anything... let alone blindly. Don't put words in my mouth. I loyally follow and stand with this nation. Not "corp giants", as a matter of fact who's post are you reading? I think my post was pretty clear, unless you have tunnel vision. Address away.


Ok Since when is what people want fairness? What people want is money. What exactly is not fair? That the rich get richer? Boohoo. It's a reallity I am neither supporting nor bashing, I am simply pointing out, the fact that it is the reality.
People want fairness while they aren't in the big money, as soon as they strike it it rich they forget you. This does not mean ignore breaking the law, or money is more important than people. It doesn't even say I agree with it. But I do agree and embrace capitalism. No doubt it needs to be adjusted, molded, fixed, but it is still the reality of the matter.
Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion because capitalism is about money. Fairness is not in the books. What do you think that out of the goodness of their hearts, anyone will say look look I want us all to be equal, so Im gonna split my money amongst us all? Will you do it?

Ya right. That's communism or socialism. I did not call Anti capitalism anti american. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to vote their belief, but part of the bargain is accepting and working at what the MAJORITY want. If you see that things are not changing then guess what you are in the minority. Hate to bust your bubble but not everyone agrees with you.
I called this
Goofydoofy wrote:Welcome to America. The asshole of big industry.

The government makes it the asshole of big industry for allowing big industry to makes us their asshole.

I can't wait to get my hands on another plane.

anti american.
Three separate posts condensed here. This is the kind of bull that pisses me off. I was already seething from the plane crack, and I'm not buying the recovery. He's a dick for saying it and I was ready to say so when I got up and saw that crack about america again.
This perhaps comes from the fact that I am sick of hearing this type of thing from ignorant idiots at a time when we should stand tall and band together. Anything that is tearing that unity apart is anti american.
To me that IS anti american. I did not compare capitalism to wife beating and rape. I didn't even compare being anti american to these. I called engaging in anti american "discussions" as repulsive to me as engaging on or entertaining discussions with someone who holds that point of view. Open your eyes and read what I write not what you think. If you want to put forth your own views do do, but don't hang on my post as the means to do it.

Capitalism has been defined in various, but similar, ways by different theorists.[1] It is commonly understood to mean an economic or socioeconomic system in which the means of production are predominantly privately owned and operated for profit, often through the employment of labour. Money mediates the distribution and exchange of goods, services, and labour in largely free markets. Decisions regarding investment are made privately, and production and distribution is primarily controlled by companies each acting in its own interest.

America is a capitalist nation. Yes we are also a democracy. But what part about privately owned operated for profit is not coming through? Yes there is a growing gap of inequality between the rich and the poor. No arguement from me. I can bandwagon that. I want more of what the rich got. But make no mistake I want it. I don't want to be another number or another statitistic, dictated to by some socialist government. I want to make my own way. I am not blind to the fact that capitalism is in it's raw form still yet another form of slavery. yet so is every other system in the world. It is impossible in our world today for there to be pure equality. However it is still the best thing going right now.
Name any other place better than america right now. Name one place that works better for the majority of the people. If there is one, it is like us in that free enterprise exists.
I will not deny that our system needs adjusting. That we are perhaps out of balance. But for crying outloud it is only a couple hundred years old. Work at fixing it. Be a part of the solution. Encourage the people don't be a jackass and spout off crap like I can't wait to get my hands on another plane, and this country sucks.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:55 pm
by Reck
This is why I like my Social-Capitalists system that Canada has. The rich can be rich, but the poor have help if they want it. And 68% of Canadians are middle class, and work in home/small businesses.

But to respond to Forco, what pisses me off about the US administration, is that Bush said that enemies of democracy, are enemies of the United States. Which means that most countries are now enemies of the US.

How about stop threatening the rest of the world and just taking care of your own shit at home.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:20 pm
by Forco
Reck wrote:How about stop threatening the rest of the world and just taking care of your own shit at home.

If you took that as a threat well, talk to Bush. I don't see it as if you aren't a democracy, you are an enemy of the united states, I see it as if you are an enemy of democracy you are an enemy of the untited states.
But whatever. I think he was directing that at terrorists.
And Reck, I known you a long time and know you say some off the wall stuff, but I still think you are pretty ok, ( for a canuck :razz ) but I don't get how that is a response to me.
:)
If you mean cause I say our system is best? I still think it is. We aren't socialist, and we do have help for those that cannot afford it. Hell even for illegal immigrants. Schooling, health, shelter, food etc. and we can be rich too. But for 2 brand spanking new cars my insurance is less than 2k a year and as of today gasoline in my area is under 3 bucks a gallon. I am not gonna look it up but I recall something about the price of gas and insurance for you being ridiculously high... I still think we are doing a good job. I'd hate to have to ride a bike to work in the rain and all that.
:razz

We are working on our shit at home. We aren't stuck to one item at a time. The problem is that it is a gargantuan job. Compound that with the fact that we all have an opinion and a say in what we do and want and you have one hell of a problem. Buuuuuut I think that in the long (very long) run the american people will succeed.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:44 pm
by Reck
Forco your alright for an american.

All i have to say is, Florida is just way too damn hot, I'll stick my snow.