oil and taxes

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Postby Forco » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:09 pm

We still pay less per gallon than ahh lets see everyone else in the whole world that buys oil?
I hate the prices at the pump as much as or more than a lot of people since I can easily drive more than 150 miles a day for work (I'm a consultant) but the reallity of the matter is, when you own something you can sell it at whatever price you want. In a free market society gouging is kinda hard to define.
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Postby Reck » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:36 pm

Okay but look at this point, I live in Calgary, Edmonton is the main refining hub in western Canada, the oil is pumped, refined, and stored with a 3 hours drive of where I live. But I pay $1.09 a litre if I drive 6 hours south cross the border I would pay about 88c a litre with curency conversion.

4 Years ago when I first came out west, gas was 42c a litre when i was paying 96c a litre in Montreal. Now East and West pay the same, even though the gas in the East is from Norway/Saudi Arabia shipped to Maine then pumped to Montreal refined and shipped to market. You tell me what is cheaper to do.

Pricing is fixed now, its not about supply and demand like they tell us, its all about greed and how far they can push.
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Postby Forco » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:35 pm

Hehe whats a litre? compared to a gallon :)

So what part about that is not business? They own it you want it they charge you. You pay it, deal made.
You don't buy it, price goes down.
However I seriously challenge the "Fixed" concept. It's not like they sit together and say "hmm so whataya think jed 3.00 a gallon? no no I say they're gettin suspicious, lets try 2.98... So far as what costs more to do I don't know. I do know that if you don't buy it the price will go down. In my city it's not possible I'm screwed, but as long as people will pay it they will sell it. If I really want to make a stand I will ride a bike or use public transport. That's all. It's not illegal to sell your product at your price. Moral or not is not in question, business is business.
And don't get me wrong, I am pissed about the prices. I was complaining about about 2.50 a gallon. Now it's over 3 bucks. Hell gas in some places even a few blocks away from each other were high compared to others it depends on convinience. People pay for convinience. Hence convinience stores. A pack of smokes costs way less at a supermarket, than a gas station. But at the supermarket I have to wait in lines. So I will pay an extra .25 cents or more to get in and out. It's convience. If people pay they will charge it. That is supply and demand at it's core.
I just want to see the issue in a more realistic way than to sit there and be a victim "oh the bad guys... oh the government.. oh Bush... they are all screwing me. That never solved crap. Wanna bring the price down don't buy it.
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Postby Reck » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:10 pm

1 litre = 0.264172051 US gallon
1 US gallon = 3.7854118 litre

It's not like they sit together and say "hmm so whataya think jed 3.00 a gallon?


But they do, OPEC decides how much production they are going to allow this causes the price to rise or fall.

Enron was found to have artificially inflated the price of oil for over 3 years.

The price of oil today on the market is oil for 3 months from now. But you will see the price rise at the pump immediately.

I have been saying for years that if they want to stay as an unregulated industry. Gas stations need to charge the price based on what they paid for the tank themselves. So if your local Shell station bough Regular fuel at 90c a litre and is selling it at 1$ a litre, they cannot raise or lower the price until they have sold all the 90c fuel. This allows the public and the industry to visibly see what the costs are. And competition will increase; since more you sell faster you can change your price.

I do know that if you don't buy it the price will go down


That would be true is Fuel made up the majority of the oil but since plastics, diesel, and a billion other chemicals compounds are produced from oil, you cannot just not buy it, everything you do everyday required something made from oil. The little sandwich bag you put your sons lunch in was made from oil.

They have the market cornered and are taking advantage of it.

If supply and demand was still in affect here, then profits would not be 200-400% higher, I could see revenues being that much higher, but profits I don't think so.

If I really want to make a stand I will ride a bike or use public transport


Well this is why I do not own a car, actually the reason I do not own a car is because the isurance industry in my province is crazy and wants me to pay $8,000 a year for car insurance. When i used to pay $2,400 when I lived in Quebec. But my main travel is my Norco mountain bike that cost just as much as a car and I treat it like its made of gold. But public transporation in my area is just crap, when I was going to university it would take me 3 hours to get to the campus, when it was a 30 minute drive.
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Postby genys » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:24 pm

LMao THE army is paying out 70 mil a day on fuel for iraq along . If ya do the math thats roughty 30bill ayear hmmm wonder if that money could be put to better use back home . Like say electric fences to keep imigration to a low up roar ??
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Postby Forco » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:30 am

I do not see the price of the other products going up but then I haven't looked. Are they going up?
The Enron and Standard Oil price jacking actions were done in different ways than this altogether.
Standard Oil was disbanded for monopolizing - 1 company
Enron was related to electricity - 1 company 1 state, 1 country.
Both of these were dealt with and punished. In each case 1 entity does not comprise a conspiracy.
OPEC is made up of 9 countries, countries that in many cases are OUR enemies and enemies of each other or, not friends with anyone.

OPEC's job is to control and "Stabilize" the prices of oil across the world and to safeguard it's own interests. (Profit)
2004 average cost of a barrel of crude oil: $37
2004 average cost of a gallon of gasoline at the pump: $1.85
Cost of crude oil as a percentage of the total: 47%
This means that the crude oil cost came to .87 per gallon of gasoline

2005 average cost of a barrel of crude oil : $65
2005 average cost of a gallon gasoline at the pump: $2.50 - $3.00
Cost of crude oil as a percentage of the total
The cost of crude increased by $28
$28 is an increase of 76% over 2004
This means that the cost of crude alone added .66 to the cost of a gallon of gasoline.
This one factor alone would have raised the cost per gallon of gasoline to $2.55 without factoring in any resulting increase in taxes (which, at an average of 23% of cost per gallon would have risen from .42 to .58, an increase in .16), refining costs (there was a hurricane, remember?) and transportation costs (those delivery trucks had to buy diesel at higher prices, too).
This year I hear we are in the 70+ dollar a gallon area.
I think the main problem in this country isn't that the price of fuel is so high, we pay a lot less than anyone else I know of. I think some countries pay up to 5 dollars or more even without the problems we seem to be having. I think it's that we are broke, Americans on the average spend 115 - 120 % of their income. What does that mean? We don't just spend what we make we spend into debt. So the problem isn't that the fuel is high it is that the cash flow at home is low.
For all of those that think we are at war for oil and that it's a "bad" thing just think of them assholes when you ar at the pump. Let the democrats keep telling you it's Bush's fault. If it were a Clinton in the whitehouse during these record storms, wars, and terrorist attacks we would be in a hell of a lot more trouble, let alone that faggot that ran for office last election. If we are at war to protect our oil interests so be it. We NEED oil, it is the governments job to insure we get it, if we can't deal for it then hell just take it. We are one of the worlds most powerful countries bar none, I for one refuse to accept the fact that some jackass in a piece of shit country that can't even get their OWN act together internally and hasn't for thousands of years dictate what I pay for anything.

So the price of oil has gone up, and the price of fuel went up accordingly.
So the fuel companies had a record year hell so did the rest of the country. Our unemployment rate is in the gutter. I don't see the conspiracy.
Now in Canada you guys have mega oil. you choose to buy it, pay for it. You want your prices to come down drill it. I am behind drilling Alaska and off shore drilling here. Screw the caribou drill Alaska. In the past I was for saving our oil for times of war, not saving the environment, we drill in other places with little impact on the environment, and the impact I call little is enormous to other people, but I'd rather drive to work than see pictures of some damn fish. WW2 may have been a bit different if Hitler had not of had to count on imported fuel to run his tanks. But the way things are going we will be using something else soon. So drill it, use it burn it while we come up with something new.
So the price of your insurance more than doubled. Is this due to the conspiracy between Bush and OPEC and the fuel companies as well?
I still do not see a conspiracy here. I see greedy oil countries financing their wars and terrorism and their own well being with our money thats all I see. Business is business, and everyone else who is in business is there to make a profit. Until they break a law either keep riding your bike or pay for it. But doing business is a matter of greed. Not one businessman is in the race for Sainthood. They are in business to make a profit.
I say blast them all run the country over with a bulldozer plant the flag there and make our OWN dang oil. If we could get the bleeding hearts to stay the hell out of the way we may be about half done with the first one.
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Re: Stuff

Postby Forco » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:41 am

Goofydoofy wrote:Welcome to America. The asshole of big industry.

Goof, what exactly makes this country the asshole of big industry? Or of anything for that matter? That we are the single most powerful nation in the world? That we can take what we want, but choose to help others instead? Or is it that you yourself are a miserable little rat living in some hole because you are too weak to get out there and make it?
If you don't like it catch a plane to France and move the fuck out.
I'm sick and tired of people living of the fat of the land and then putting it down for providing it for you.
I suppose having to live in fear from a bomb is better, or living where the governments not only run all industry but reap all the profits as well is better. Or where they can just exterminate a 1/3 of the populace because of their religious or political beliefs is better. Or where you cannot buy anything because you live in squalor and there is NOTHING to buy is better. Or is it because people like you can make statements like that and not be shot?
Damn you. I am an American and I love my country. I would die for my way of life as many have before us. I am proud that my children serve and desire to serve and die for this country and this way of life. So damn you get the fuck out if you don't like it.
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Postby Forco » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:44 am

genys wrote:LMao THE army is paying out 70 mil a day on fuel for iraq along . If ya do the math thats roughty 30bill ayear hmmm wonder if that money could be put to better use back home . Like say electric fences to keep imigration to a low up roar ??

Why would we do any of those things? We haven't in the past and the reason we are not doing it is not because we do not have the money. We have plenty to do what we feel like doing. It is because a large portion of the people do NOT want to do it. maybe they ought to let you guys walk.
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Postby Ayragon » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:56 am

Anybody find it strange that oil was exported commercialy in 1853, almost 50 years before the first automobile was built.

I bet it was cheap then.... :thumbup
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Asshole

Postby Goofydoofy » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:05 am

The government makes it the asshole of big industry for allowing big industry to makes us their asshole. I'd gladly leave if you wanna cover moving costs.

I think it is pretty funny how other countries and CEOs of major corporations use the American flag as a diaper. Maybe Old Navy should start selling those. I think they'd be big sellers to the rich and elite. Hell, the president and half of Congress are wearing em.

Am I the only one who thinks it is a bad idea to sell our ports to another country? Basically, selling parts of America to another country? Is this not illegal like most of the other shit the people who run this country have tried or done in the last several years? And for what? Money. From other countries and big industry. So, you can love America all you like. I just hope you enjoy the taste of shit everyday of your life. I know I do.

I miss the good old days when we had a line item veto. Now you just take the shit as it comes. Corn and all.

Somebody willing to die for their country? Well, do it then. Why am I reading posts from ya? There is plenty of things that threaten a country other then war. Fly to China or Japan and start killing random people. They are threatening our economy. Kill drug dealers and polluters. Shoot a kid who steals a 5 cent candy from the local store. That kid is undermining the economic stability of this country. Shoot the teachers or parents who have let the kids drops from being 1st in alot of catagories to less then 10th. That is hurting our country. Go to the south and kill some racists. Yea, it still goes on. Make the change you are so fast to say you'd die for. I wonder if I need to put a disclaimer here now incase you actually do it and I'm held responsible. Nah, this is America. I think I have the right to free speech under the assumption people are smart enough to know what is right and what is wrong. Or not. I guess I could say a video game made me do it. Maybe The Sims.

OK, I gotta go get a truck full of fertilizer and call my buddy Timothy. Catch ya later...
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Postby Reck » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:02 pm

genys wrote:
LMao THE army is paying out 70 mil a day on fuel for iraq along . If ya do the math thats roughty 30bill ayear hmmm wonder if that money could be put to better use back home . Like say electric fences to keep imigration to a low up roar ??


Why would we do any of those things? We haven't in the past and the reason we are not doing it is not because we do not have the money. We have plenty to do what we feel like doing. It is because a large portion of the people do NOT want to do it. maybe they ought to let you guys walk.


Your asshole of a government passed a bill 4 months that approved a project to build a 25 foot wall between Canada and the United States.

The reason, to stop terriost from getting into the United States. But to get into the united states you go through your border, so its your border that lets them in.
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Postby Toisrus » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:05 pm

Forco wrote, "So damn you get the fuck out if you don't like it."

Forco, take a deep breath. Why so hostile? I don't understand the attitude of some people that if you disagree with them, you are expected to uproot your life and leave all the people and places you love. It is not like those very same people don't have complaints when the other political party is in power. It is like saying, "If you disagree with the guild officers, you should immediately deguild yourself." No free speech, no respect for others, no listening, no tolerance. Instead of a dialogue on issues that need to be addressed, there is overreaction. Bring out the Drama Llama.
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wow

Postby bill » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:21 pm

With NAFTA in place I can't believe the US is being so ... rude.

I love America and it makes me sad to see them making such silly mistakes.
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Postby Horgboth » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:32 pm

I like you folks more without hearing the various crack head views. I would have been happier without the recent politically oriented threads. I am sure in the end we all do care about the same basic things, but have issues with our points of view and ideas toward assuring them.
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Postby Reck » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:03 pm

Well Horg, though I spent 6 years in university learning information systems, I grew up in Montreal during years of constant threat of seperation from Canada. So politics has become a passion of mine, and I speak up out on it, but I love when others alos do so, I don't hold peoples opinions against, I love when someone thinks differently.
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