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US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:17 pm
by Bilnick
President Bush wants 700 billion dollars to bail out the financial markets.

What do you think?

Part of me wants to say F the companies and people who made stupid decisioins and let them pay for them by losingb their jobs, house, car, whatever. Let the companies go bankrupt, let the people who cant pay for a mortgage they shouldn't have got in the first place lose their home. They made the bad decisions, deal with them.

Part of me knows that if the government does nothing, it means companies go belly up and even more people out of work. It would make it next to impossible to get a car loan or mortgage in the future. It should be much harder to borrow than it has been obviously, people should have never taken interest only loans on houses that were too expensive to pay for, and banks should have never loaned the money in the first place.


And a rant.......

And then some financial minister of Germany says the US will not be a superpower financially anymore. The German should talk when his country doesnt need 15 other countries banded together to have any sort of clout in the world. We dont need France and Italy to make our money worth something. STFU when you matter again.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:21 pm
by Hilf
how many and which companies? do you know by chance? cause to me it really depends on who's going to crash

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:06 pm
by Ulrith
Let em all go to hell in a hand basket, so some poeple will have to move in with thier parents, it would be worht it

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:52 pm
by Goofydoofy
Who gives a shit. Just print more money. Simple. I can't be bothered with giving a shit about anything going on anymore. Things are just going to get worse, so get used to it.

Has the Sun exploded yet?

This planet truely needs to vaporize or at least China has to take over the planet. Pretty sure they are in a good position to do it anytime now.

Ya, I'm Mr. Positive. Just lemme screw my goats and leave me alone. Oh wait! That's illegal and homeland security considers that a threat to national security...And gosh, it just aint politically correct!

Hopefully McCain will be the next President and he will fix everything.

Ya, I'm just rambling, but it is what I do.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:37 pm
by Sothran
Lol, McCain is just more of the same that helped get us into this mess.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:59 pm
by Bilnick
Remember what Ross Perot said about NAFTA when he ran for president vs Bush and Clinton?

15 years later we are seeing the results of the trade agreement ol Bill Clinton signed. (To be fair Bush Sr would have signed it too) Now that all of the good manufacturing jobs are in Mexico, congress is going to loan the Big 3 American makers 25 billion dollars........will be able to build a lot of plants in Saltillo with that $$.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:21 pm
by Ceruis
Sothran wrote:Lol, McCain is just more of the same that helped get us into this mess.


How exactly is the current fincial situation the fault of anyone's in Washington? The free trade stuff is all find and dandy but at the end of the day nobody put a gun to someone head and said "hey, come buy this house you can't afford" or "hey, come max this credit card." All the debt out there is entirely the fault of the dumbass idiots who decided to live outside of their means and then reneg on their obligations because reality caught up with them.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:22 pm
by Worff
It's confusing, but here is about how I understand it... whether or not I explain it correctly is left to be seen hehe:

1. Many decades ago, around the depression era I believe, banks and investment firms were one and the same. They used individual's savings and mortgages as collateral to invest.. and when they screwed up, many people lost their asses.

2. Congress passes laws stating banks and investment firms must be separated so this level of loss would not happen again.

3. In the early 90's, banks/investment firms spent BILLIONS lobbying congress to convince them everything is now OK.

4. In 1999, Clinton signed a bill allowing banks and investment firms to be one and the same once again.

5. Banks start loaning money to people like crazy, not really caring if they could pay because...

6. They "invested" by selling the mortgages/debts to Wall Street who hoped to make profits by...

7. Selling the debts on the international market, still no one cares at this point if borrowers can pay (well except the end buyer but it's NOT Wall Street or our Banks anymore).

8. Wall Street also uses the mortgages as collateral to borrow money.. lots of money.

9. Greed, greed, greed. Also now lots of wealth goes away from USA and to foreign contries. Investors don't give a rats ass because they already got paid and are rich.

10. Mortgages and debts start going bad (shock!) leaving a trail of unbelievable losses and a financial market in deep trouble. Wall Street needs bailing out.

================================

Screw all them greedy bastards. Let THEM pay the 700 billion, not taxpayers.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:32 am
by Goofydoofy
I was joking about McCain. I hope he and George get together and eat a jar of rat poison.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:54 am
by Fenina
I really don't know too much about economics but I believe the US is supposed to have very little gov't intervention with its economy for the economy to function the way it is supposed to. Part of the discouragement of doing some of these poor choices in business practices is that this invisible hand is going to slap you upside the head at some point. If you survive as a company then good for you, you learn from your mistakes, if you don't it is natural selection. US Gov't promoting the survival of these companies through a bail-out or purchase or whatnot just seems wrong and removes the risk from some poor business practice decisions.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:48 am
by Goofydoofy
The government IS the economy. Who prints the money? Who sets trade agreements? Who sets taxes? The government. Everything that happens is the governments fault in the end. If anybody thinks they have nothing to do with anything, you are a fool. Wars, taxes, relationships with other countries, bailouts, all of it...Done by the government. In the end, nobody has anybody to blame but themselves because you are all the people who put these people in office.

Kill em all I say!

:cheers

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:50 pm
by Worff
Fenina wrote:I really don't know too much about economics but I believe the US is supposed to have very little gov't intervention with its economy for the economy to function the way it is supposed to. Part of the discouragement of doing some of these poor choices in business practices is that this invisible hand is going to slap you upside the head at some point. If you survive as a company then good for you, you learn from your mistakes, if you don't it is natural selection. US Gov't promoting the survival of these companies through a bail-out or purchase or whatnot just seems wrong and removes the risk from some poor business practice decisions.


Good call Fen... to add to that, anyone notice it's the really big guys they always bail out? Airlines, auto companies, banks, etc. Where were they to bail out Ma and Pa when Wal Mart and Best Buy moved into town and wiped a ton of small businesses in towns across the USA. Small business makes a stong economy, not corporate giants. Corporate giants are always forced to keep stockholders happy in the typical for-profit business model... to do this they have to constantly cut corners and raise prices, and come up with useless bullshit to sell with flashy TV ads... this has limits. Sooner or later you can't cut many corners anymore, and the public can only stand so high of prices. This is why health care has gone totally insane, because they run on the same business model. And because health care is something ALL people need and naturally look for in employment... it affects all businesses across the board. So does energy, everyone needs it.

Also, why are so many used-2-be American companies now majority-owned by foreigners? So, in the end Goofy is also right ... the government is at fault for a lot of it. Don't forget USA and it's mega-capitalism is only what, 232 years old? Very young in the grand scheme of civilization. Not saying it's all bad, there are good qualities in our system... but it needs some serious tweaking.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:22 pm
by EQIsenhart
People only care or get concerned about issues (not just on economy but as a whole) when it bothers them personally. For the longest time many Americans heard or even knew someone going through the slow building problems that the Bush administration (and yes decisions made before him) without really doing anything they just let it stew and now the proverbial shit has and will continue to hit the fan. I wonder how much more we as a society will take, perhaps it's not effecting some of us personally enough yet, but there will come a time when it does. Will it be too late?

This was pretty funny, my credit score is 730 or something like that, which if I remember right is pretty above average but I was denied credit on a recent application for a cell phone just this week, about 6 months ago when I got a previous cell phone I had even less credit score and was approved with no money down.

The govt should take that 700 billion and give it to all the citizens, or better yet all tax payers, let the people decide where the money goes.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 pm
by Sothran
Unfortunately we cant, as a nation, allow the taxpayers to directly decide where the money goes, because, in general, a huge portion of taxpayers, are stupid. Thats why you can look at southern states that are polling 20 and 30% margins for McCain and the states always go red, because they are full of ignorant rednecks, and thats why you look at liberal states that already vote all blue, because they are a bunch of liberal hippies ( equal opportunity offender ). The reason the government does those economic stimulus packages, is not so you have a little more money saved. Some of us do save money like that, but what they are banking on, is the couple living in the trailer with late payment bill collectors calling every day, to rush out to the store and buy a 40" Plasma TV. The individual person is generally good and intelligent, but people, are stupid beyond any ability to describe.


On a side note, the deregulation that Worff mentioned that was a portion of the downfall of our current financial state, do a google search for McCain and Deregulation. GoP is all about some deregulation. It helps themselves and all their rich friends and campaign contributors to make alot of money. This is a liberal video, but isnt making anything up, its all documented video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
It is possible he is an even bigger liar than Bush.

Re: US Financial market bailout...what do you think?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:18 pm
by Goofydoofy
The previous post mentions most taxpayers are stupid. To correct that statement, the majority of the human population are complete idiots. You can't box in just the taxpayers. If you took any occupation, I'd bet government officals have the highest % of idiodicy to any other occupation. Everybody is a complete idiot and we need a massive plague.

I am such a rosey presence.