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Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:59 pm
by Yagada
Worff wrote:And here is why that simple tax plan would not work, say a family makes 12,000 per year, well below poverty level. That's 1k per month. Could you pay your rent and utilities, food, water, trash pickup, gas for the car, car insurance, or even be able to afford a car for that matter, or pay for public trasportation.. all on 1k per month? No, you couldn't. So how could they possibly pay 20% of that in taxes?? This is why tax percentages are staggered. I do feel bad for the lower-middle class the most tho, because they make just enough money to get taxed hard, but not enough to really keep making ends meet.

On that, I was able to not only survive, but get a college degree. It was hard. I took a few cold showers, ate ramen noodles 7 days a week, drove a junker car and lost alot of sleep, but I did it because it needed to be done. I did it on my own, not one free dime was given to me. I borrowed $ to pay tuition, but I'm paying that back now. And that whole f***ing time.... guess what.... I paid income tax.

If you're poor, get a job. No excuses.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:05 pm
by Worff
Oh I agree with you on that to an extent, Yag. There are those that just take advantage... I dont knock the poor single mom for being poor, but plz stop cranking out a kid every year. Sure accidents happen, but not 6 times lol.

One issue I have with the beggars tho, is many of them did not get that way by choice. However once they are in that predicament, who will hire them? Very few to no one will. Would you hire one personally?? I think beggars and some other types out there just don't have the opportunity you think they do.

Yeah you, as a single college student, could possibly survive on 1k per month.. I doubt any familes can tho, if so it's by the skin of their teeth and cannot afford 20% tax rate, which was my point of that paragraph. Even the single student could not afford to lower their income from 1k a month to $800 a month eh?

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:07 pm
by Worff
Yagada wrote:If you're poor, get a job. No excuses.


Where? MInimum wage job maybe? That won't change their status from being poor.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:17 pm
by Yagada
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/lab/551237413.html
3 seconds of looking... and MY DOG could get that job... $8/hr -> $16k/yr.

And YES. Making minimum wage and still being poor is better than not contributing at all. Just because it doesn't improve their immediate financial situation, doesn't mean it isn't progress for their future.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:26 pm
by Worff
Here is a quote from the first line of that ad you linked:

Qualified candidates will have prior manufacturing experience and a solid work history. Excellent attendance will be required. These are temp to hire positions. Stop in or call our office today!


Note the keywords "Qualified candidates", "prior manufacturing experience", and "solid WORK history". So if someone was between jobs for a couple of months, gee that never happens, that would disqualify them. Or say it's a mom, now single from a divorce or widowed, who has no work history? Say someone tried starting their own business for a couple of years but failed... is that solid work history? What about the beggars you spoke of .. not gonna happen is it?

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:27 pm
by Worff
The whole point of this thread, by the way, is tax rebates. From what has been said earlier, the minimum wage guy doesn't deserve a tax rebate in some folks' minds.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:00 pm
by Aithzar
Worff wrote:The whole point of this thread, by the way, is tax rebates. From what has been said earlier, the minimum wage guy doesn't deserve a tax rebate in some folks' minds.


Well, you have think about what this rebate is suppose to do. Stimulate a stalling economy. If you stop thinking about it being a tax rebate it makes it easier to swallow. This "free money" is going to do a few things.

1. Put money into the hands of people who could use more disposable income and that will actually spend it buying something or paying a bill.

Okay, so what this means is that Joe Blow who makes 35,000 a year and pays taxes, mortgage, car payment, etc. So will he spend this 600? Definitely. He will use it to make a payment on his sub-prime mortgage, buy an xbox360, buy a Blu-Ray player, invest in short-term CD's, buy his girlfriend a nice valentines present, etc. So the government knows this 600 dollars will definitely go back into the system. Now the guy who makes 120,000 a year gets 600 dollors and its just a drop in the bucket to the money he is already spending. So it doesn't do that much good for them to give the money to those who earn this much. Why give it to them, when they are still spending when you can give it to someone else with a lower income that definitely doesn't spend as much on things that stimulate the economy. What about the guy who makes 18,0000 a year? You know he is going to spend it. This is all about putting money into the hands of people who don't have disposable income. The Government is basically giving free money to the people who don't have as much to spend. They hope that this will encourage people to spend more by using the 600 dollors.

2. This will help companies who provide goods and services and infuse them with some extra earnings because of the millions spending this 600 dollars.

Many companies are struggling right now. Take this example. I work for a Media Printing company. We print all types of paper media. CD's, Software Boxes, DVD wraps, Manuals, etc. Right now, those strapped for cash aren't buying CD's, DVD's, or new software. They aren't renting as many movies from the local movie rental store. This in turn lowers the company's revenue because it depends on people buying these things for our customers to order/re-order print from us. Now granted, the digital world affects us as well, but for the sake of argument forget about that. What will it do for my company when people spend their 600 dollars on DVD's, Games, Software, CD's, Blu-Ray players, etc? It stimulates my companies revenue because the goods we provide will be purchased more often by those who make 18,000-75,000 dollars.

Now, I understand that many people who will receive this 600 dollars do not deserve it. There are many people out there who totally work the system and pay no taxes. These deadbeats have found flaws in our government programs and will continue to exploit them. Now, how does it affect the goal of this stimulus package? They will spend the 600 free dollars just like the guy who makes 35,000 a year. So by them spending the free money we all still win. Our companies that we work for will be recovering more revenue and will go a long way to helping companies keep from laying off their employees. Is it fair that these lowlifes will get the "free money"? No its not, but thats a social program issue that needs to be solved by the people in our government. Does them getting the money still help us as lawful, hard-working, taxpaying Americans? Short answer, yes.

Do I feel this stimulus package is going to stall off the coming recession? No. I believe this is just a stop gap measure that will put it at bay for a few months. We are definitely going to enter a recession in the next year. How long will it last? I don't know, but I do not believe it will be long, perhaps a matter of a 1-3 years.

So in closing, the short answer is that this stimulus package is going to allow everyone to spend some money for a few months from all aspects of our wealth structure. Be it the guy who makes 12,000 a year to the guy who makes 12,000,000. Everyone will be spending extra because they will have extra. Even if they are just making a mortgage payment with it, they are spending money they didn't not have and that is the whole idea behind this package.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:18 pm
by Worff
Exactly :)

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:52 pm
by Yagada
/agree 100%

If my refund were 30% higher, though, like it should be, I'd still spend it all...

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:42 pm
by Worff
Yagada wrote:/agree 100%

If my refund were 30% higher, though, like it should be, I'd still spend it all...


Wish my refund was 30% higher every year too lol. I always get some back, and have been happy with that, so this Rebate thing is an unexpected bonus to me, that will make me want to spend a little more than usual too :) So I think it will be successful, but as Aith was saying it's only a stopgap or delay of a recession... I'd like to think their hope is to come up with more permanent solutions during this delay time... but it could just as easily be pre-election tactics of some sort.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:21 pm
by Aithzar
You know, one thing I thought about for all of us who get this "free money". Try and make a conscious effort to "BUY AMERICAN". Doing so will help even more and we will all be helping each other.

Aithzarx/Russell

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:36 pm
by Chadeaux
I am paying bills , thats about as american as you can get hehe

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:34 pm
by Worff
lol Chad $

Yeah haha every time I make a phone call across state lines my money goes to AOL/Time Warner/Taco Bell/US Govt/Mountain Dew/Dominos Pizza/ACME Wax-String Long Distance Service :P Must be, bacuse everyone seems to get a few cents in on the phone bill somehow lol.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:32 am
by Wreaking
I make right at 85K a year as a computer programmer right now, I have made 120K a year but worked alot harder, my wife about 50K so we are under the line. I pay 16K a year for child support to my ex cheating excuse of a former spouse. We live in a very modest house (3 br, 2 bath) drive used cars. We pay a crapload of taxes because I can't claim my kids, my ex's husband does (that is so messed up). We are not poverty by no means but I assure you we don't live extravagant. The money will be well received.

Re: The government is refunding some of your taxes.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:35 am
by Worff
Hmm if I understand the proposal correctly, ya'll would get 600 because the income limit per person is 75k... I know collectively ya'll are under 150k but you make 85k... I hope ya'll get the 1200 :) but I'd be prepared for it to only be 600.