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Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:30 am
by Zyzzerzazz
I wanted to make this thread up to help new raiders easier know whats expected of them on raids in relation to their class. But also for us to brainstorm and share ideas on how to best use each class on our raids. This is just a start so please copy/paste your ideas for the classes role as we go and I will update the thread until we have a solid list for peeps to use as referance for raiding with their class!

Bard - Bards are most useful for melee/caster dps boosting. Depending on the dps type grp a bard is placed in, different songs need to be twisted. In TF we mostly use bards to boost our huge population of Melee dps <insert song names to be played for both melee/caster dps> Also, bards might be placed in the Main Tank grp for extra AC and defense, as well as mana boosting for healers. Bards may alos be needed to assist in pulling for the raid. Bards beware of your songs Aggro during pulling of both trash and named during raids, it sucks bad to lose your grps bard on the pull of a named and all that boosting is dead from the start. Always have PoR Aura up.

Beastlords - Melee/nuke/pet dps! Buffing as requested, MGB Paragon for mana, back-up healing when grp healer is not able to keep grp alive or is dead, debuffing/slows, KEEPING pet under control at all times! DPS off mean stop attking AND pet back away, Pet Hold is a requirements for any raiding BST.

Beserker - Melee dps, MGB Warcry, Perma PoR Melee Crit Aura up at all times. When full burn is called a chain Warcry is needed, as well as the correct Disc Lineup up the many dps discs zerkers have access to. --- The best I have found is Warcry then Third Wind.... then pop all of the following at once: Savage Spirit, Blinding Fury, Reckless Abandon, Cascading Rage....when Savage Spirit is down....Pop Beserking + Epic 2.0 Click...when Zerking is down pop Cleaveing Anger....when CA is down pop Vengefull Flurry + Bloodpact....When Vengefull is down pop Battle Frenzy till the mob is dead or you run out of endur. This setup is just my reccomendation, find out your own if you want but its a great start for any zerker looking for a quick guide.

Cleric - Buff, Heal, Cure, Rez ! It dosnt get much easier then that. Use the 2.0 click and Div Arb as much as possiable to concerve mana. Pop MGB HoT when needed per the event, dont forget to duble Mark all raids mobs with lv 65 Mark of Rightenouss and Lv 78(?) Mark of the Devoted since they stack <this is a huge help vs any AE ramp mobs>

Druid - Buff, Debuff, Heal, Cure, 2.0 click Nuke/DoT, Battle Rez! Healing is the priority for any druid not assigned to other specific tasks on raids like kiteing/rooting, but if you grp is full hp and cured of any DoTs, or no battle rezzes are needed, you should go into dps mode but only when those conditions are met. Druid DPS should be the last priority in the mix unless the mob is 5% hp and we need the kill asap!

Enchanter - Buff, Debuff, Mez/Stuns, Mana Flare. During a Raid Mob Chanter priority is Tash, Mez/CC, Rebuff mid-fight if needed, Mana Flare, Rune MT/RT/Off Tanks. Nuke/DoT on named as the event allows is also business for the chanter. <need more info here>

Mage - Debuff/ Buff Pet / Damage Shield + Mana Rods / Nuke+pet DPS. Pet control is huge again for the mages, an out of control pet can cause major risk on raids and you can be asked to leave raid if not followed. Nukeing is the main dps source for mages, but a controlled and buffed mage pet can add to that. A raiding mage should help Debuff a named and when assist is called start the nukes. Damage Shields should be used as much as possiable, especially vs AE Ramp Mobs. REMEMEBR to not DS any Kiteing Toons. MT with DS should always be up. Oh did I say pet control!

Monk - Pulling / Monk Aura / DPS! - Monks pull...duh...Monks also are responsiable to help with Aura and DPS <insert best monk Disc Order here> Need more info.

Necromancer - DPS! (Pets used by raiding necros, is the dps even worth the risk) - Debuffing the named is business as usual for necro early int he fights, dont forget about that. DoTs are the main source of DPS but Nukes also play a role there. Necros are great at FD in a safe place during a wipe to help rez after. FD often after stacking DoTs to help keep aggro low. Pet control is HUGE if a pet if used. <insert more necro info here>

Pally - Buff, Off Tank/Ramp Tank with DA Hammer, Group.Single Heals - BATTLE Rez when able/needed - Pallys like all knights are best at snap aggro with stuns. Off tanking and kiteing with no damage is business as usual for them. Grp heals/Cures when able is also a big deal to all pallys. Help healing/cure when able is KEY on raids. Always have pally PoR Aura up! I would say a pally should only be on auto attk on the named ONLY when grp is is healthy/cured, no off tanking/kiteing is needed nor expected.

Ranger - Buff, Debuff, DPS, Heals, Auspice! - Beware Hail of Arrows, possiable BAD aggro issues depending on the location of the raid. Always ASK grp or other veteran rangers before useing! When not asked to help kite/snare adds, a Ranger should be duel wielding DPS on the named with melee and Nukes/DoTs and burning down. If grp is low HP and grp healer not alive or not able to heal, heal away! <need more info here>

ROG - DPS/DPS/DPS - Remember to pop whatever grp aura dps boosts you can. Be sure to pop the correct discs in order to maximize dps <insert disc names here > Dont die too early in the fight! <need more info here>

Shadow Knights - Kite/Off Tank - Harm Touch Named when able/free - DPS named when not Offtanking/Kiteing is needed or expected. <need more info here>

Shammy - Buff/Debuff/Heal,Cure/Champ,Cougar,2.0 Click perma - A shammy main role in most TF raids is in a melee dps grp as main healer and dps booster with Champ,Cougar, 2.0 clicks and Grp Heal over time. Sometimes fast heals an cure will be needed and those are the priority over any melee dps boosting. When grp is healthy, cured, mob has been debuffed and slowed, cougar is up and running, and you have mana to spare, I would say toss in a DoT/Nuke here and there. But Slow is the priority, then heals/cure, then dps boost, then DoT/Nuke dps. <more info here> When Sloth/Langor is fixes, it should always be up on any Kiters/Off-Tanking knights/warriors.

Warrior - Tank Much? -- Warriors should always have PoR Aura up and full buffs ready to tank at a monents notice if the current MT goes down. Build aggro on the named but dont gank, AE Taunt and other fast aggro generators are a must when aggro is needed off a DPS/Caster type. <insert more info here>

Wizard - Nuke dps, but not ganking aggro! Wizards need to balance the careful line of maximizing dps while not ganking aggro and splat. Aggro reducers are needed at times and Harvest Line of spells and abilities are also needed on long fights where mana is needed. Keep the dps going and dont die! <more info here>

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:00 am
by Ulrith
All numbers listed here are base and go up with whatever bonus;'s are present and in no way represent anything accrurate.......


I use Pyrolure and Lure of Isaz back and fourth all night long, kinds like a 5-10k dot every 5 seconds.....I call it the SLOW BURN......

But when the:


A Raid Leader Yells "For the Love of everything Holy BURN IT DOWN"
A raid spell set is no good unless u die before u get through it(JK):

For example: these can be cast one after another with (practicly)no delay:

9 seconds for one pass

(Nuke) Ethereal Conflaguration (To grab its attention) 8.5k or 19.5k(crit) this one does have a delay of 6 seconds

(InstaNuke) Flashfires (to nail it) 4.7k or 10.3k(crit)
(InstaNuke) Cloudburst Strike (to nail it) 4.7k or 10.3k(crit)
(InstaNuke) Cold Snap (to nail it) 4.7k or 10.3k(crit)

Total 22.6k upto 143.1k(crit) X 5 wizzies(never more then that in a raid) = 113k upto 715.5k(crit) in 9 seconds

Highly Highly doubtfull the 5 wizzies will make it to the second pass(can u say aggro reducer):

Total 45.2k upto 286.2k(crit) X 5 wizzies = 226k upto 1,431.5k(crit) in 18 seconds

If you still dont have aggro (hehe) u can rinse and repeat above line up. If u dont, cycle through the insta nukes in that order, you can do it constantly till u die, which u will.

Telakisz (if u get this far u might as well stun it and give yourself time for a quick curse to the EQ Gods, or maybe get hate lessener off) 1.5k or 3.5k(JK)

But I say *** to the stun, who wants to live for forever(JK)?

*****There are higher damage spells, but they are jsut the EQ gods way of putting the screws to us and just want to see us die horribly and quickly*****

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:06 am
by Aithzar
Zyzzerzazz wrote:Bard - Bards are most useful for melee/caster dps boosting. Depending on the dps type grp a bard is placed in, different songs need to be twisted. In TF we mostly use bards to boost our huge population of Melee dps <insert song names to be played for both melee/caster dps> Also, bards might be placed in the Main Tank grp for extra AC and defense, as well as mana boosting for healers. Bards may alos be needed to assist in pulling for the raid. Bards beware of your songs Aggro during pulling of both trash and named during raids, it sucks bad to lose your grps bard on the pull of a named and all that boosting is dead from the start. Always have PoR Aura up.


I would suggest adding in the ability for bards to help with mezzing on events that have lots of mobs that need locked down.

Zyzzerzazz wrote:Beastlords - Melee/nuke/pet dps! Buffing as requested, MGB Paragon for mana, back-up healing when grp healer is not able to keep grp alive or is dead, debuffing/slows, KEEPING pet under control at all times! DPS off mean stop attking AND pet back away, Pet Hold is a requirements for any raiding BST.


I would add in the ability to be a extra offtank as well. Bst's have enough aggro generation to gank and save a caster during trash and inside of most events that deal with adds.

Zyzzerzazz wrote:Cleric - Buff, Heal, Cure, Rez ! It dosnt get much easier then that. Use the 2.0 click and Div Arb as much as possiable to concerve mana. Pop MGB HoT when needed per the event, dont forget to duble Mark all raids mobs with lv 65 Mark of Rightenouss and Lv 78(?) Mark of the Devoted since they stack <this is a huge help vs any AE ramp mobs>


Have RC to use on raids, use DI on your groups tanks/enchanters, use heals appropriate to your mana pool and your current focii, setup a cycle through npc key for trash clears to help heal tanks with aggro


Zyzzerzazz wrote:Necromancer - DPS! (Pets used by raiding necros, is the dps even worth the risk) - Debuffing the named is business as usual for necro early int he fights, dont forget about that. DoTs are the main source of DPS but Nukes also play a role there. Necros are great at FD in a safe place during a wipe to help rez after. FD often after stacking DoTs to help keep aggro low. Pet control is HUGE if a pet if used. <insert more necro info here>


Be thoughtful of events that will cause you to be summoned, help mez on events that are undead.

Zyzzerzazz wrote:Pally - Buff, Off Tank/Ramp Tank with DA Hammer, Group.Single Heals - BATTLE Rez when able/needed - Pallys like all knights are best at snap aggro with stuns. Off tanking and kiteing with no damage is business as usual for them. Grp heals/Cures when able is also a big deal to all pallys. Help healing/cure when able is KEY on raids. Always have pally PoR Aura up! I would say a pally should only be on auto attk on the named ONLY when grp is is healthy/cured, no off tanking/kiteing is needed nor expected.


Should be expected to have DA hammer or working to get it. This item is invaluable for raid paladins.

Zyzzerzazz wrote:Ranger - Buff, Debuff, DPS, Heals, Auspice! - Beware Hail of Arrows, possiable BAD aggro issues depending on the location of the raid. Always ASK grp or other veteran rangers before useing! When not asked to help kite/snare adds, a Ranger should be duel wielding DPS on the named with melee and Nukes/DoTs and burning down. If grp is low HP and grp healer not alive or not able to heal, heal away! <need more info here>


In addition to duel wielding, say in bold. NO BOW DPS unless event calls for ranged dps.

Zyzzerzazz wrote:ROG - DPS/DPS/DPS - Remember to pop whatever grp aura dps boosts you can. Be sure to pop the correct discs in order to maximize dps <insert disc names here > Dont die too early in the fight! <need more info here>


Use Thief's eye, level 68 disc from DoDH.
For big burn with warcry, auspice, shm click burning use. Epic 2.0 Click + Pinpoint + Rogues Fury + Frenzied Stabbing
For little burn or above already used. Epic 2.0 Click + Pinpoint + Assassin Discipline
Also, become friends with Necro's, tell them to tell you when they are on a fight that they will be using lots of poison nukes/dots. Docent of Toxicity FTW! They will love you for it.

Zyzzerzazz wrote:Shadow Knights - Kite/Off Tank - Harm Touch Named when able/free - DPS named when not Offtanking/Kiteing is needed or expected. <need more info here>


Voice of Thule!

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:57 am
by Velocis
lol there's too many damn monks in the guild anymore for bards to be asked to pull. anyway, i try to stay away from chorus as much as possible. the amount of hp/mp regen we generate from the song is pretty insignificant. and since bard songs aren't scaled like they are supposed to be, i doubt this song will ever be of any use again. the song also has a habit of bugging people's ooc timer, which is just another reason i don't even bother with it anymore. we also debuff really well. i always have hos up and cast it on every named mob. paying attention to what group you are in is also important. if you have a monk in your group during pulls, don't play any songs. i occasionally play songs in those groups if i have room to. i keep my map up at all times so i can see how close the monk is to me. if they are out of my song range i'll do some occasional twisting. but if you aren't sure of your song range then don't risk it. i always have mez up. on the events where we need to dps off at a certain % i always help chain mez those mobs since there's a 99.9% chance it will be broken anyway.

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:42 pm
by Goofydoofy
I don't see anything about Necros feeding mana to healers on long events. Maybe this is not needed in TF or maybe Pensfan's attitude towards twitching is still at play here. But, CN uses necros alot for feeding mana to healers on events where there are many fights going on at once and they are long. No matter how awesome your healers are, mana goes quick when you have to heal many different people at once. Or, when you are low on healers. I was always amused when Pens refused to twitch somebody. Also, bsts have more then just mgb paragon. They have FOCUSED paragon. Can give paragon to a specific person every 3 minutes or so to keep them up on mana. Bsts and necros are key to keeping healers full of mana during a raid.

At least thats how I see it.

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:07 pm
by Koromir
Zyzzerzazz wrote:
Pally - Buff, Off Tank/Ramp Tank with DA Hammer, Group.Single Heals - BATTLE Rez when able/needed - Pallys like all knights are best at snap aggro with stuns. Off tanking and kiteing with no damage is business as usual for them. Grp heals/Cures when able is also a big deal to all pallys. Help healing/cure when able is KEY on raids. Always have pally PoR Aura up! I would say a pally should only be on auto attk on the named ONLY when grp is is healthy/cured, no off tanking/kiteing is needed nor expected.


First of all are you really serious about the pally aura? I've used it once or twice, in my opinion its crap and does so little it's not even worth it. Second of all to the point of pally only be on auto attack, are you referring to like afk dpsing, or the fact that we shouldn't be dpsing the bosses unless there is no offtanking/curing/healing/kiting required for an event? If i'm told to agro adds and there is one or two yeah i'll just focus on them and stun them but if there is many mobs, there is no way for a paladin to compete with sk's ae agro and the only method that is somewhat useful is to hug the mob and chain group heals (being in the tank group so that every group heal is actually healing amplifies this to an actual useful level). Of course once you get agro and if the chanters aren't mezzing you don't stand there and dps, you take off running -- but I've been sent tells when i was supposed to be agroing adds and since i didn't have an add targeted people assume i'm not agroing them. Trust me start f8ing through mobs i'm sure you'll find quite a few that want to kill me. :jester

As a side note, corruption cures for paladins are pretty weak and we really aren't very good for that but if you're talking poison/disease cures -- I will go out on a limb to say we are even superior to clerics when it comes to curing singles. If its a matter of healing a whole group then clerics/shaman will be superior. I've noticed that paladins are rarely called upon to cure, I don't know if this is because past paladins just refused, didn't like to do it or if the priest classes are just used to doing it but paladins are very capable curers on poison/disease anyhow. We got completely shafted on targetable corruption cures for some reason though.

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:50 pm
by Scoundrell
Aithzar wrote:
Zyzzerzazz wrote:ROG - DPS/DPS/DPS - Remember to pop whatever grp aura dps boosts you can. Be sure to pop the correct discs in order to maximize dps <insert disc names here > Dont die too early in the fight! <need more info here>


Use Thief's eye, level 68 disc from DoDH.
For big burn with warcry, auspice, shm click burning use. Epic 2.0 Click + Pinpoint + Rogues Fury + Frenzied Stabbing
For little burn or above already used. Epic 2.0 Click + Pinpoint + Assassin Discipline
Also, become friends with Necro's, tell them to tell you when they are on a fight that they will be using lots of poison nukes/dots. Docent of Toxicity FTW! They will love you for it.


Voice of Thule!


I would break this down a little different IMHO. There are different ways to skin the cat but this is how I skin mine :thumbup :
- Maximizing Rogue DPS takes is ALL about timing. It is something that consumes some Rogues in that they are typically expected to live at the top of any Parse. Know that not every mob is a candidate for parsing a class whose DPS is largely based on maintaining a fixed position behind the mob. A mob that would otherwise move around that can be pinned against a wall or corner will help positional based DPS.
- It helps quite abit to know when a Shaman will hit their 2.0. Some hit it soon as tank calls assist, some call it after mob goes down xx%, some dont call it at all... having an audio trigger built that goes off upon Sham 2.0 click can serve as the trigger to hit a burn sequence.
Sham 2.0 click = you are blessed with the gift of the ruchu

- Rogue candy = Sham and Bard in group + Berserkers avail to do a Warcry chain for fight duration.
- Pinpoint Vulnerabilty/Vitals (assuming it actually lands) provides 6, 8, or 10% boost to all Backstabs work for ALL Rogues. Effect lasts 30 seconds and refresh is 2 minutes. Theoretically, this means 4 Rogues can provide 6, 8, or 10% boost to all Backstabs indefinantly. Since the majority of Rogue DPS comes from BS, this is worthy of looking at. Coordination is required = Have an order to perfrom Pinpoint + each Rog has 2 audio triggers (1 for Pinpoint success, 1 for fail... mine are set). All will then hear the succeed of Pinpoint but only the casting Rog hears the fail. Succeed means next Rog waits 30 sec to do his Pipoint. Fail means let next Rog know it failed so they do theirs now. There may be a trigger that can be set to a Pinpoint Fading but I think only the casting Rogue would get it. Its disappointing to hear 3 different successful Pinpoint triggers go off within the first 10 seconds of a mob being engaged.
Success = has had their vulnerabilities pinpointed
Fail = avoided your pinpoint
- Long fight burn sequence = Opening poke/Thieves Eyes (tie TE to a hot button to perfrom TE when you BS) + wait for Sham 2.0 (prior coordination helps) + Pinpoint, Rog 2.0, RF and Frenzied, Envenomed Blades (900dd proc that lasts 2 minutes)... wait for Frenzied to fade then alternate Kinesthetics and Deadly Precision which have a 5 min refresh till mob is dead. I cant remember which discs are canceled out by using Intensity of the Resolute (7th year Vet) so I'll revisit this issue. Similarly, our new Second Spire is touted as the best in parse of the 3 Fundement: Spires of the Rake but I dont know how it stacks with other discs atm. Third Spire is considered something that can wait since it has only a fractional impact on DPS. Sometimes RF/Frenzied will become available again towards fight end. I tend to time the expectation of the next Sham 2.0 click with the refresh of my own 2.0.
- Short fight burn sequence = Opening poke + wait for Sham 2.0 + Pinpoint, Rog 2.0, RF and Frenzied, Envenomed Blades... wait for Frenzied to fade then hit Assassins Disc.
- Docent of Toxicity. I would love to find Necros that actually would like to have Docent of Toxicity put on them for a poison based nuke/burn. In the Rogue community, this disc is largely regarded as useless. My experience with it has been disappointing in that every Necro I cast it on said it really did not make a noticeable increase in their poision based spell damage. Once again though, I dont mind doing this if they want it. This can be set to chain if other Rogues are willing to participate in coordination.

For all of the above, things work better when there is a DPS channel. I am not a fan of Voip/Ventrillo/EQ Voice.
To make your own custom audio triggers, visit AT&T Labs. Save the audio files in C:\Program Files\EverQuest\AudioTriggers\default (or wherever you saved EQ. Can also make a new folder to load for a new event but I found it easier to just throw everything in default.

I'll edit this post more later when I can actually look at my char in game to jog my memory abit.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, dont forget Personal Tribute. I use:
- Bukwark of Honor for extra AC
- Eyes of Hunter for extra accuracy
- Fury of Combat for extra chance to flurry
- Replenish Body for extra regen

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:20 am
by Hetikar
Monk - Pulling / Monk Aura / DPS! - Monks pull...duh...Monks also are responsiable to help with Aura and DPS <insert best monk Disc Order here> Need more info.



Here is what I use on raids for my disc order: On pull, I always pop Fists of Wu (6% Double Attack) and I use Whorl of Fists all I can..when its time to burn I pop Heel of Kanji (spam those kicks like a bad mofo) then I pop Crystalpalm (I usually get about 2 casts of Whorl of Fists/Wheel of Fists during the duration of CP) then after CP is down I pop Scaledfist (Makes your special attacks hit harder, ie kickes, WoF, striked etc..I usually get 3-4 casts of WoF during the duration of CP) by that time most of your disc timers are down, there are other various little discs you can use after these have been used, but im not going into detail as to what they are, cause if your a monk, then you should know..

Re: Class Raid Roles! <need your input>

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:55 pm
by Bateow
Monks should also be dispelling beneficial buffs on mobs. If you don't have your OoW chest and are a monk, stop slacking and kill velitorkin or AMV/OMM until you get one. I've had OoW tier1 chest for a long time, and it makes events like OMM trivial because now that you can see mob buffs, monk can dispell it as soon as it casts on itself. I will debuff damage shields, haste, runes, etc with it, especially on raid mobs.

The clicky is also the best thing I've found for pulling (300 range). It is my #1 utility clicky, far more important than 2.0 or anything else I have.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=70900
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=70788

Either one works. It's not instant cast, but it's close enough to use it as frequently as I want without impacting dps much.