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Beastlords and Rangers DPS (bard enhanced)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:10 pm
by Horcrux
I don't want anyone thinking I'm stepping out and saying "this is how you should play your class!" But, with the inclusion of some new TSS songs to my arsenal of utilities, I've been looking into the DPS capabilities of some other classes. And I just have some suggestions for some additional DPS if some havent tried utilizing certain things (and if you are grouped with me or any other bard, using the following will make the most use of our songs) First I looked into BLs and Rangers, since I gained amazing utility songs to assist them in TSS.


Direct Damage Ice Based Nukes (correct me if I'm wrong, but under the assumption that casting one greys out all others in the line)

For Spiked Sleet (TSS Ice Nuke)
Base DMG 1135
Base DPS 37.21
Bard Enhanced DMG 2136
Bard Enhanced DPS 70.03
Bards enhance the DPS of Spiked Sleet by 88%. Keeping this greyed out without a bard is an additional 37.21 DPS, and with a bard is 70.03 DPS.

For Glacial Spear (OOW Ice Nuke)
Base DMG 958
Base DPS 33.9
Bard Enhanced DMG 1905
Bard Enhanced DPS 62.45
Bards enhance the DPS of Glacial Spear by 84%. Again, keeping this greyed out (if dont have Spiked Sleet yet) adds 33.9 DPS, and 62.45 DPS with a bard.

Damage Over Time (I'm under the assumption that Poison and Disease based DoTs stack, correct me if I'm wrong)

Fever Spike (TSS Disease DoT)
Base DMG/Tick 196
Base DPS 32.66
Bard Enhanced DMG/Tick 255
Bard Enhanced DPS 42.5

Diregriffon's Bite (TSS Poison DoT)
Base DMG/Tick 275
Base DPS 45.83
Bard Enhanced DMG/Tick 358
Bard Enhanced DPS 59.66

Stacking the Above 2
Base DMG/Tick 471
Base DPS 78.5
Bard Enhanced DMG/Tick 612
Bard Enhanced DPS 102.05

Summary on Beastlords:
Considering a level 75 Beastlord (not taking into consideration resists, criticals, and any outside Foci). Chain casting the Ice Based DD as well as keeping the Poison and Disease based DoTs stacked yields a total of 115.7 DPS without a bard, and 172.08 DPS with a bard. This is on top of melee DPS, and can be utilized without impacting Melee DPS.


Fire and Ice Based Nukes (Correct me if I'm wrong, but casting an Ice based will not grey out a Fire, and vice versa)

Volcanic Ash (TSS Fire Nuke)
Base DMG 1053
Base DPS 34.52
Bard Enhanced DMG 1789
Bard Enhanced DPS 58.65

Icefalls Chill (TSS Ice Nuke)
Base DMG 1195
Base DPS 39.18
Bard Enhanced DMG 1974
Bard Enhanced DPS 64.72

Summary on Rangers:
Considering a level 75 Ranger (again, having no resists, criticals, and outside Foci). Chain casting the above two nukes yields a total of 73.7 DPS without a bard, and 123.37 DPS with a bard. This is, again, on top of melee DPS and can be utilized without impacting melee DPS.

What am I trying to get at with this post? Bards are are utility classes. We are tools. If I am not used correctly, I will rebel. Normally I'll become bitchy in a group, but its so that the group is making full use of the abilities I am offering. My 30%Overhaste/30%Nuke/DoT Foci aura does nothing when people are outside its range. My 250 to all resist song does nothing when people are outside its range. My Fire and Cold Nuke DMG enhancing songs do nothing, when classes who have these spells are not utilizing them. I am very numbers oriented, and will do what I can to maximize others abilities. If someone is not utilizing my songs, I will ask the raid leader for someone else in group. Take my constructive criticism as what it is. There are various roles a bard can fill in a raid, and normally I will choose which is best for which situation. However, most the time it is enhancing DPS. I have done the necessary research, and played enough of various classes to understand what they are capable of. So in the end, use my songs that I offer or lose em. I take note of who utilizes me the most, and I choose them in my raid groups.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:36 pm
by Jahras
HOORAY bards!


PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:02 pm
by Keld
Ranger = :poked:
Bard + Ranger = :bazooka:

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:23 pm
by Ranjaling
Rangers can cast up to 4 nukes on seperate timers (6 if you include the animal/humanoid one & the 74 hate nuke) which really arent useful in this circumstance..

On a Shyra hit just chaining 3 of the 4 below I burn through 10k mana at just about the end of the fight which I think last time was 7? minutes.

70 - Scorched Earth (Fire)
73 - Volcanic Ash (Fire)
70 - Ancient North Wind (Ice) - which we will be seeing the runes in the near future
72 - Icefall Chill (Ice)

Bards in grp truly do rock our nukes even more. I would suggest putting the top 4-5 bst/rangers that have highest mana totals with a bard for full benefits. Spell casting fury aa's are a huge plus as well.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:40 pm
by Horcrux
Ah 4 nukes, that makes it even better. Number crunching I get....

Chaining those 4 nukes...

Base DPS - 145.24
Bard Enhanced DPS - 316.28

117% increase, holy shit!
171.04 DPS increase...

Some more quick numbers....

Twisting - Fire Foci, Ice Foci, Nuke Proc, Melee Proc

1 Bard, 4 Ranger, 1 Shaman group...
Personal DPS - 350
Enhanced Ranger DPS
Nuke Enhancers - 171
Nuke Proc - 26.66
Melee Proc - 15.00
Total - 212

Personal DPS + 4(Enhanced Ranger DPS) = 1198 DPS

And thats not taking into account any crits involving personal ranger nukes, nuke procs, melee procs, haste/atk group click, 30% overhaste aura...

Thats just one group set up. Will have to experiment a little.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:57 pm
by Jamjum


Quad archery hit aimed line AE that hits as many targets as you can line up = win.

combine with shaman epic clicky for more damage, the mammoth DPS buff, trueshot, and a ranger can use the hail to 'nuke' for over 20k with the right gear, skill, and such (assuming very well geared with epic 2.0 shaman clicky).... 4 bards spamming hail of arrows with trueshot and shaman click would be badass, especially with a bard there adding more dps to their nueks and such.. the ranger nukes have a 0.5 cast time so keepign them all used is no problem at all.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:52 pm
by Keld
HOA + TS is great dps, just have to get it to hit your target. Our nukes are good too plus land our new TSS dot Rk.II and if you have some focus to go with it youre gtg.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:00 pm
by Serano
I can't figure out hail of arrows - it doesn't seem to do anything.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:27 pm
by Ranjaling
Yup, Hail of Arrows can be a very powerful weapon during the TS timer. It can also be a very Dangerous weapon depending on the encounter.

I typically use HoA on the final mob on MPG Trials, Quarm and a few other hits though since it's prone to go through walls etc I do not use it on Shyra or any other raids that it may have a chance to find it's way to something else.

If any other Rangers have used HoA on Shyra let me know. I've just always thought of it as to risky to test myself especially with Shyra and the raid so close to that door.

Once our rangers have all four elemental nukes in their arsenal it will make for some really awesome burst DPS on nukes alone, let alone the other elements we have.

The only problem is that DD burst is delegated by our mana pool. Something many rangers have near the bottom of the concern list.

With 10k mana and 56 mana regen (raid buffed) I still can only go about 8-9 minutes MAX chain nuking so I can't stress enough the importance of Rangers thinking more serious about our mana pools and +MR.

Another thing you should do as a Ranger is learn your maximum potential for DPS. Serano can back me up on this as I know once he got his Lirah sword way back when he already could see his melee dmg outperforming his ranged... You don't even need 1:1 ratio weapons to be more effective melee than ranged. My parses back when I was using 16/18-16/19 ratio swords was still far outweighing my bow DPS.

Utilizing our Triple attack, Guardian of the Glade, Auspice, Hawk Strike, Jolting Kicks, Kick, Warder's Wrath put us right up there slightly behind our friendly monks with our melee capabilities alone without even adding in the nuke damage.

Soon we will be seeing weapons to put us on par with our monkey friends and our bows should be situational tools only.




If your unsure of your numbers then Shyra is the perfect encounter to find out. After burning TS, if you've been hanging back on ranged in the past, try jumping in on melee on our next hit after TS fades and ask Jahras, Antok, Aubrianna or any of the others who do parses to give you a comparison of the the melee parse versus an older one where you stayed on range. The difference in the numbers will shock you I bet. I've parsed myself using both and couldn't believe the comparisons.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:32 pm
by Areo
Serano - Hail of Arrows is one of those tools that once mastered can boost dps greatly. You need to understand how it works and play with it extensively before it becomes truely useful. It is a spell that checks our archery damage and casts an ae in a cone in front of us. Playing with it has shown that it is very range sensitive. To close it cast through the mob and hits nothing or worse casts through the mob and it hits other mobs on the other side. I've had it hit mobs through the wall on the other side of the mob. Too far away and the cone spreads too wide and hits other melee and not the intended mob. It is a 4 shot ae that has a chance to crit on each arrow and it checks again TS also. This means when TSing can get 4 crits equalling 10k damage.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:38 pm
by Ranjaling
Keld wrote:Our nukes are good too plus land our new TSS dot Rk.II and if you have some focus to go with it youre gtg.

I personally do not use my dot during raids because of its slow cast time. 3 seconds is a lot of lost melee DPS for a 244tick/1minute dot and its cost just doesnt seem efficient to me at 542 mana per cast. I prefer the 0.5sec nukes and hope for crit blasts as it doesn't speed bump your melee attack casting those.

But that's just my preference, if you have the foci for the dots and like using them in your arsenal that's cool too.

I love our TSS DoT while im Root-N-Shoot'n however. :guitar

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:39 pm
by Keld
Ranja HOA can be pretty bad, but you just have to find the right spots to use it. HOA can be used on Shyra, but you would have to point it so it hits her and the wall behind where no guards are. Stay at minimum ranged attack range and point more towards the left of the corner just enough so you still hit her. The spell has been known to go up through ceilings and to lower levels in some cramped zones too.
Not sure about 1.5 clicky or WW, but will know soon enough I hope. Our DoT line can add some good dps also on long fights for the cost of mana.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:46 pm
by Jamjum
Serano wrote:I can't figure out hail of arrows - it doesn't seem to do anything.

you are this symbol: @
mobs are this symbol: M
HOA is this: ----------------------------
X = max range of HOA shot
periods are just filler to make the symbols stay int he right spots.

........................... M M
..............................M M
..........................M M M M
......................M M

You have a train of mobs! lets say your farming spiders for silks. You get them following you, turn around, and see this.

BAM Hail of Arrows. Shoots an invisible line or "ray" attack straight down your characters line of vision. You just quadded 7 mobs at the same time for a shitload of damage.

This is a VERY skinny line, and the above shows that in how it will only affect a small area. All mobs within this AE attack ray however, are attacked four times with archery attacks!. This is not limited to only 4 targetes either, as many as you can manage to get into that small space....

sooo... walk backwards!! they will follow you and eventually end up like this.. even with 3 or four mobs in the same place... like this....


Picture this as 'in game' all 17 of those mobs are now in a small, tight line. This is achieved by ONLY walking straight backwards - dont turn etc, make sure you hae room. you can also run towards them and take some hits to let them group up faster, but in many zones you could get xp from, this is not a very good option.

BAM hail of arrows. You have now Quadded 17 mobs at the same time.

Notes about Hail of Arrows.

-Its a 'physical' nuke. It is considered an archery attack, therefore it wont be nearly as much DPS against jumjam as against mobs. It can be shielded, dodged, missed etc.

-Trueshot works, as well as other DPS enhancing buffs, auspice etc.

-As it is an attack rather than a true spell, it can not be resisted (but see first note)

-Trueshot works, so do any other effects that will increase your archery accuracy or DPS such as sharpshooting, mammoths strength, etc.

-It can go through walls and obstacles. Good and Bad. Mostly bad.

-Its accuracy is based on YOU! Its your responsiblity to PRACTICE for a bit so go to some zone with crowded mobs and practice hitting specific mobs in a crowd WITHOUT hitting the others.

Note, when your aiming HOA, it is not aimed when you first CAST the spell, the central line up and down your screen (center of vision) at the time of COMPLETION is the direction of your ray, so you MUST constantly move back and forth to keep your Hail properly aimed as the spell is channeling. Do NOT use the arrow keys, use mouselook or miss a lot.

Last time we did the armies in time I think i was doing 700ish DPS without using trueshot, just shooting and using HOA when it popped - i would run around and line up as many mobs as I could.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:11 am
by Wamadoorn
Direct Damage Ice Based Nukes (correct me if I'm wrong, but under the assumption that casting one greys out all others in the line)

Not necessarily. I don't have Spiked Sleet yet, but I can (and do) load up both Glacial Spear (1100+ with Ice DD focus) and Frost Spear (800+ with Ice DD focus) and cast them in quick succession... then melee till they refresh again.

Damage Over Time (I'm under the assumption that Poison and Disease based DoTs stack, correct me if I'm wrong)

Yes, you can most definitely stack a BST poison and disease DoT on one mob.

As far as BST dots go on a raid... well it depends. I try to have at least my best one or two loaded, and throw them on situationally. If the mob is going to last long enough for the DoT to last more than one or two tics, and is somewhat likely to land, then absolutely I add it. Otherwise I save my mana for nukes and heals. The dilemma is on raid target mobs that may resist many times... making the decision to sacrifice your melee dps to try 3,4,5+ times to get a slow-casting dot to land (maybe) can make you gun-shy about using it much. But if an encounter is under control, I may experiment with a few casts to test how well it lands on a particular mob to see if it will be useful the next time we do the hit... especially after giving enough time in the fight for casters to land resist debuffs.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:05 pm
by Jahras
The only time that I really load a DoT is for ranged fighting, otherwise I find they just resist too much, and take too much time to cast to justify over using that little extra time meleeing and saving the mana for nukes/empathy/heals.

Might be different when i pick up a nice focus for them, but decent DoT focuses are kinda hard to find since I upgraded from my potime range.

Heh an interesting note, with PoTime focus, chimera blood (OoW) is the same dps as diregriffon's bile (TSS) for less mana, just doe to the level spread and focus degredation.