Should the Level Requirement Change?

[Aboobaka]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with Phishn. Until this is actually causes 1 problem I see no reason to change it yet. Yet.

[Kaylar]

Well I see lots of problems. If we keep things the way there are now, the lower lvls (60 to 65) are not going to be able to group with the rest of us. Now I'm meaning group group not raid group. I had this problem as of last night. I'm a 70th lvl cleric and could not group with any of my guildmates last night. Shit, I couldn't even get them to answer me in GC until I said something about a cat holding there tougne. Now if I'm having this problem what makes you think a 60th lvl toon is going to be able to group with us? I just don't see it happening.

[phishn00]

I saw Silverdreamer at lvl 65 today. Emenite is already 62(?) Harmfulbag is 62 or 63. There are 3 examples of people who have been in the low 50's get to low-mid 60's in a few weeks.

If lvl 50's are able to get groups ok, why exclude a bunch of people for fear that someone lvl 63 couldn't?

[Madokvaur]

I have seen some problems with lower level (lvl 60) toons on raids. I will not name names (because I am old and don't remember ) but I remember a raid where someone continued to die and once was feared and took a while to recover the corpse. This held up the raid for a good while till the corpse could be found. On another raid when we moved to another zone and a lower level toon was never in said zone before and did not know how to get to said zone and as a result died in another zone trying to get there. A few good guildies went and helped out and end result was another delayed raid hit.

IMO level 60-65 are the main levels to really start to group in higher level zones and get to know higher content and the abilities/spells of your toon. I am sure there are some players out there that soloed there way to lvl 60 and are just learning how to work in a group. These levels are NOT the time to be comitting to guild life of a high end guild (yes, i said it). You will always feel left out. For god sakes at level 60 you can't even get into BoT unless you did the access quest. I also can't help to think some peeps don't know what or how to set-up an assist key for the MT at level 60.

I saw Silverdreamer at lvl 65 today. Emenite is already 62(?) Harmfulbag is 62 or 63. There are 3 examples of people who have been in the low 50's get to low-mid 60's in a few weeks.

As stated, it really doesn't take that long to get to lvl 65 anymore, especially if you are serious in wanting to join TF..they will make it happen and they will be better off for doing it. Hell the app process take a week or two. Get in TF and keep asking for grps in tfchat and get to know TF members for those levels. Sounds like a plan to me.

[phishn00]

I have seen some problems with lower level (lvl 60) toons on raids. I will not name names (because I am old and don't remember ) but I remember a raid where someone continued to die and once was feared and took a while to recover the corpse. This held up the raid for a good while till the corpse could be found.

I can name dozens of level 70's in guild who have held up raids from stupid shit. I bet I can name a hell of a lot more raids wiped by lvl 70's than by lvl 60's.

Is it your contention that we will all of a sudden start wiping due to having people under 65? That raids will get faster once we raise the min lvl to 65?

Mado, you're saying that people will be a detriment to the guild because they were tagged for 5 extra levels?

I'm still not seeing a single benefit to TF from increasing the min lvl.

[Madokvaur]

I am not saying they will be a detriment..I am saying get a little more XP under your belt and learn to grp and become an asset. It will be more pleasurable experience for everyone. And my point above is those 5 extra levels may have menat not being feared cause you had better resists. I also only brought that up becuase some said they never had/saw an instance where a lower level caused a problem. IMO that is not the main reason why the level should be increased, I was just showing an example.

I am also talking from experience .. A long time ago when I was level 60..I joined a higher level guild. It was very frustrating seeing the guild doing other content that I could not join in with or was not ready for. I actually ended up quitting EQ for 6 months cause it no longer was enjoyable to me. I am not saying peeps can't and won't have fun at level 60, but I can see them getting frustrated and I would hate to see someone quit EQ because of it.

[bill]

My only thoughts behind this were these:

For god sakes at level 60 you can't even get into BoT unless you did the access quest.

When apps can't even zone in because of their level to a backflagging event, we have problems.

I was going to mention that they can't zone into MPG either, but omens being related to guild progression is not the case atm.

[phishn00]

Hi, hope this ends the discussion

Well I have a 62 Paladin, her char name is Bluesflameangel.

If we're gonna miss out on peeps like Blues because people are afraid of what could possibly happen, then it's a sad day in TF land

Edit:

- Name ~ Nennie

- Class ~ Bard

- Level ~ 64

Name: Tearrin
Class: Shm
Lvl: 62

And on and on, I could post the apps of a dozen more regular raiders who have turned out to be very skilled players, yet apped when less than 65.

Are you willing to risk losing them to other guilds because of what could possibly happen?

[Madokvaur]

/bump

Any final resolution on this yet? looks like the masses have voted in favor to increase the min level

[Nennie]

Phish pulled out the big guns on this one ;x

It does make a lot of sense and does push me on the borderline of "either or" for me. Raising the cap has it's benefits.

The majority of our apps want to join cause they want to raid. From apps I've read they join because their guild isn't active, they like what theyve seen with us as far as raiding goes, or they have friends. The higher level would help them with getting groups, help us on raids, and so forth.

Phish does have good points though. Raising the cap to 65 will not all of a sudden cause a rush of apps coming because we are now taking 65+. We will cut down our people that are apping, possibly losing some good skilled people because of that.

I was 62 when I started guesting on raids with you guys for an emporer kill that would complete my VT Key. A few days later I was 64 and decided to app. That 65 jump isn't that big of a leap. A few good group invites and you can be up there in a matter of days. If someone wants to join they will wait to 65, just like they would have waited until they were 60.

A downside also of raising that I would see is since they are having to wait until 65, they might look at some of the other guilds, or get recruited by them. With Nox at the same points as us, and WoD not far behind, they might be swayed over to them also. It's their choices where they want to go, but if they were in at 60 they could see who we are, and we'd hvae more leverage to keep them.

I dunno. Maybe we should raise it when we break time. Right now the more help we can get with these EP gods is better (not that lvl 60 apps are usually EP Flagged), but still, it really doesn't seem like a big problem right now, but definately could be as we progress. a lvl 60 Tank in GoD Progression just isnt going to cut it usually and it will be frustrating for the group, and themselves.

The best thing we can do is keep the level requirement at the content we play. That way we dont get frustrated they can't go, and them get frustrated they can't go. When those of us above apped, 60 was the required area for these Planes. We just broke into Fire when I joined and was doing another backflagging string. We have progressed since then. If 60 is good enough for that now, then I'd say keep it, but as we progress where 65+ is needed and practically required I hope it will be raised.

[bill]

Level 60 tanks won't help us tank Grummus lol.

A level 60 warrior right now is worth about as little a possible to us as a raiding unit right now.

However, the catch is that we are not a raiding-only guild.

My thoughts are that 3/4 of the guild feels its time for that cap to move up.

We are raising the cap, then if things don't go favorably for us, we bring it back down.

Apps posted as of today are exempt.

Worff, Ranjaling, make it so!

[Nennie]

One suggestion...

Next time we do these poll things, can we get a discussion about it first, and then have the poll after? Would be a good way to get ideas and feelings out if anyone changes their minds after reading stuff.

[Bilnick]

Good point Nennie, I voted for the change, but after reading Phishn's and your responses I would change my vote if I could.

[bill]

Fair enough, I've seen this happen a few times in the past as well.

How about this: I post another poll and give the matter another week.

How's that?

[bill]

The other poll is now posted. Don't forget it's never been easier to level with MM's introduced since ALL of those people listed have app'd.

I personally don't care if we make em wait till 60 or 65, with MM's that's a total of what, 5 hours tops? Heh.