Update to DKP points tracking/ awarding

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Update to DKP points tracking/ awarding

Postby Serano » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:45 pm

The officers have been working hard to award DKP in the most fair and managable way for over 2 years. We have changed the way we track events several times. Some of the difficulty with running a DKP system is inherent in a system where several peeps have to jump in and run it at different times. Makes awarding point values difficult to standardize between different philosophies of event goals/difficulty etc. DKP is most efficient when there is a single DKP god that awards points their way - every event - and shows for every raid.

That just doesn't work with our guild so we have worked at a more flexible plug and play system. Also the type of raids we do has evolved. Used to be a typical raid was to kill 1 - 2 targets and call it a night. Some zones we hit are just wacky with several contested nameds on our way to the real boss which in some cases is just another loot mob. Other times the progression hit is the only thing that drops loot but is a very important mob due to the hail you get etc. Due to those fundamental changes in the way we raid (actually this is a months old problem we have been fighting about how to solve) we hope this will smooth the participation vs DKP reward curve for all players.

So - we are moving to time based earning of DKP for regular progression/loot events. We were a little concerned that some raids - you could rack up a dozen DKP for much less effort than some difficult event - that took the same amount of time for only 3- 4 DKP earned. So as a way to best reward your time invested on the nights you can raid - we are going to attempt to track raids by how long we spend on them.

Outgoing policy:

d) Most guild raids are worth 2 points for attendance and 1 additional point for each goal completion. Typically 2 points will be awarded to all players that are on time and stay thru the duration of the event. A person that leaves early or arrives late will ussually have one point subtracted. A person will also not recieve points for each goal they are not present for - a raid dump will be taken at the begining of each goal. Arriving mid goal may mean you miss points or might have to wait until the current fight is over to catch up if possible.


New policy:

d) Most guild raids will earn players a raid point an hour. The first Raid point will typically be earned 5 minutes after the posted raid start. Additional raid points will be earned every hour after that until the raid leader calls the raid. Unless the final kill of the night is within 15 minutes of the previous hourly stamp - a final raid point of the night will be awarded at the conclusion of the raid. A person that leaves early or arrives late will ussually miss raid points depending on their participation or lack thereof. Arriving late and not being able to catch up until after the next raid point was awarded is unfortunate but the member's responsibility not the DKP staff's. You must be "with" the raid in order to get raid credit - not in the raid tool and afk at zone in, in another zone, etc. As always let an officer know if you missed a raid point due to LD but regular attendance at the event.

e)Points are awarded to the character. If you dual box, you only receive points for one (1) character, not both; UNLESS the raid leader specifically asks you to dual box. TF currently acknowledges one main per player.
f) Goals can be added/removed/edited on the fly as needed. The presiding Officer has discression on points awarded for goal completion and multiple hit-raids.



e) MOST quest hits will be worth 1 point or none depending on the preciding officer's role, size/required size of the force, length of hit, set up time, and follow on hits associated with that or another quest hit. Most Quest hits with less than 18 players will not be DKPed. when in doubt if the loot is NOT DKPed you didn't earn any DKP. If some wacky officer sells the loot for DKP you earned points baby.
f) Points are awarded to the character. If you dual box, you only receive points for one (1) character, not both; UNLESS the raid leader specifically asks you to dual box.

We are still going to do some experimentation with quest hits. We do'nt want their value to be greater or less than standard raids. So we will see as they go if an hourly stamp is best or an event based award of points is more appropriate. You will notice if you examine DKP over the last couple months that most omens quest hits are going for 2 DKP and about a week ago or so - they started being generally 1 DKP each. We will see how our new system of tracking raids overlaps with quest hits - and see if we need to tighten up our policy in that regards.

TF currently acknowledges one main per player.


This was part of what is now point f) I am deleting it - as it was vestigial from some previous incarnation of our rule set. This line specifically was part of a sentance that said that for DKP purposes we acknowlege one main and remember that was when DKP was fluid between mains/alts. When that aspect was changed per our Box rights discussion - part of the sentance was left in erroneously.

There are a few other things in the works we are discussing - some of which might require member feedback. havn't addressed boxes in awhile - only about 6 of us raid with boxes. A few other issues might get announced vs asked for opinions depending on the importance of the issue.

Our official DKP policy is posted in 2 places, on our policies forum - and on our DKP site - I will be updating them shortly after posting this - I will try to remember to BOLD the incomming policy but then I am only a wood elf.
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.

Postby bill » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:55 pm

Finger-lickin good y'all!
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Postby Ranjaling » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:19 am

Couple things I want to go over quick.

DKP is on a set timed stamping now. In the past TF has been very forgiving of stragglers and made initial dumps on the plow call. With all that Serano pointed out above, there is two other reasons we also felt it best to use this method.

1) It makes for a much higher accuracy in members raid percentage which directly effects our recruiting numbers.

2) It was not fair for members who were sitting in zones early for events or on time that had to wait 30-45 minutes AFTER scheduled raid time until late-comers finishing up DoN's, DoD's, or what have you showed up and we were able to push on.

Stamps will be taken at 5 minutes after the POSTED scheduled raid time, then every 60 minutes afterwards.

If our raid is set to start at 9:00pm, then stamp goes down at 9:05 and anyone joining the raid from 9:06-10:04 simply misses that point.

Only exceptions to this is of course if you were in raid and go LD or you are IN ZONE waiting for a RAID INVITE in which case you will need to /shout or /ooc that "I'M IN ZONE AND LFG" before that 9:05 goes down. Then you will show up in officers logs as being there on time and just wasn't in raid tool yet.

This system will benefit TF in numerous ways.

1) Make more people start getting to raids on time.
2) Award DKP more fairly in that it's given for members time rather than per target.
3) Give a more accurate raid report for reference and recruiting needs.
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hehe

Postby bill » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:28 am

Just to drive one point home:

Then you will show up in officers logs


The only way we can give ppl credit is if they show up in the logs. As long as you are in a log file regardless of status with raid and are in zone, you are golden. Remember the date that you were in zone during the correct time and let the officers know.

Isenhart pushes this one to the fullest lol.
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Postby Serano » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:37 pm

AND - it might not always be 5 mminutes after. It might be 4 and 1/3 might be 6... muhaa haa haa.
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Postby morbi » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:10 pm

How will this work with raidins such as PoA. Many times those waiting to be raided in are on time, just can be in zone for the logs by the five minute after the posted raid mark. Do raidins just "take one for the team" and not get the first hour dps or is there a log in PoT also and if so do all waiting for raidin get dps or only those who get raided in?

I can see either way "making sense".
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Postby Nennie » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:22 pm

morbi wrote:How will this work with raidins such as PoA. Many times those waiting to be raided in are on time, just can be in zone for the logs by the five minute after the posted raid mark. Do raidins just "take one for the team" and not get the first hour dps or is there a log in PoT also and if so do all waiting for raidin get dps or only those who get raided in?

I can see either way "making sense".


Yea, that's a very good point. Not so much the people that are waiting for the raidins, but the people who actually do get raided in from the start, just after the initial raid log. Don't think they shouldn't recieve their point cause we're waiting on some slakerz who are flagged to get their asses in there ;x
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Postby Serano » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:51 pm

we already talked about that - Raid ins will that couldn't be in the zone will typically be given the same original time stamp the rest of the raid got if they were in the raid in channel. subsequent raid ins will get the next dump after the original gang got in. granted some of the raid ins might have been waiting from the start - but the bottom line is - that they are a raid in because they missed flags either by joining the guild after we did the flags or missed the flags when we did them the first 3 times.

so... peeps without flags will miss some DKP.
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Postby Yoshikawa » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:05 pm

so... peeps without flags will miss some DKP

i know some one is going to have something to say about this, but.....
it makes perfect sense. I, for example, cant go to tonights VT raid because i dont have a key, i could go get it if i wanted to. During our back flagging runs our many of our officers offered to box people that could not attend flagging runs, also the "shuffle and hail" and corpse summons were implemented on some flag hits. /pickup can be your friend if your looking for lower tier flags.
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heh

Postby bill » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:28 pm

peeps without flags will miss some DKP


I'd be interested to hear what DKP guilds give DKP to raid-ins.
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Postby Yoshikawa » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:42 pm

we do cause we're cool like that
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He'll stand high before us
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Re: heh

Postby Ranjaling » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:55 pm

bill wrote:I'd be interested to hear what DKP guilds give DKP to raid-ins.


Yep, hense unless they are raided in before the initial stamp then their reward will be, um, yeah, getting raided in /nod

Small trade to get Fire/Air/Earth/Water/Time flagged for missing 1dkp IMO.
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Postby saiari » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:52 am

Don't think they shouldn't recieve their point cause we're waiting on some slakerz who are flagged to get their asses in there ;x[/quote]
So now the people that do have their flags are slackers if they are late for a flagged raid.....interesting....lol
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Postby Nennie » Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:45 pm

saiari wrote:Don't think they shouldn't recieve their point cause we're waiting on some slakerz who are flagged to get their asses in there ;x

So now the people that do have their flags are slackers if they are late for a flagged raid.....interesting....lol[/quote]

haha...that part was mainly a joke :) Yea I guess I do agree with ya guys now about it and definately does make sense. The raidin is more valuable than the one dkp where they wouldn't be getting anything if not for the people that do show up eventually.
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Postby phishn00 » Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:52 pm

We've been very, very generous about handing out dkp in the past, and unfortunately the result is a large number of peeps showing up late for raids and still getting full dkp. This is very counterproductive when viewing overall raids (if we're waiting on people to join up, that wasted time can cost us additional attempts after wipes or additional targets).

So, if you feel like you're being jipped because you're missing 1 dkp from being a raid in, be happy knowing that you have probably received dkp in the past that you technically didn't deserve :thumbup
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