NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Fnord Shoggothslayer » Mon May 19, 2008 9:12 pm

We used blind bidding for quite a while back when we first started doing DKP. Had the great advantage of being quick - none of the one upping we see now. People bitched because they felt they were "overpaying".
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Fenina » Mon May 19, 2008 9:46 pm

Hmm hope it never comes back then, would be to much frustration for me.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Antok » Mon May 19, 2008 10:27 pm

"0 once, 0 twice, 0 sold" doesn't really seem to take any more time than "FFA once, FFA twice, FFA sold."

if we wanted to go back to blind bidding, we have an officer announce the current max bid in gu and do bidding like we do now. It would have the advantage of decreasing collusion, but it wouldn't save time and we'd have to find a way to avoid confusion between multiple bids of the same value.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Velocis » Mon May 19, 2008 11:35 pm

i'm having a hard time understanding how the changes are supposed to make things easier and faster also
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Koromir » Tue May 20, 2008 12:43 am

Not sure how blind bidding was done in TF but I'm familiar with it somewhat. I think the best way to do it is you send a tell to an officer with the highest amount you'd pay for the item. Highest bid wins of course but you don't pay the highest amount you pay 1 dkp higher than the 2nd highest bid. That way its cut down on overpaying cause you bid 40 and the second highest was like 20 for example. I think that silent bidding of that nature would speed up the process and get rid of the 1 dkp increments that make loot take so long to get distributed. I'm not saying I would prefer blind bidding over our current system, just offering a suggestion to limit overpaying in a silent bidding system.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Stonecrush » Tue May 20, 2008 12:48 am

Problem with that koro is say an item drops I have 140 DKP... Everytime I see an item I want BOOM! I bid 100 DKP... So And So bid only 20. So now I got the item for 21 dkp.

I know you said you didn't want it, just stating what would be wrong with that idea.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Ceruis » Tue May 20, 2008 7:12 am

yeah, not liking the blind bidding thing at all just from what yall are saying. Would be down for the min increaments tho...like say 5...I hate the nickle and dime crap too tho I'm pretty sure I've done it a time or two myself. As for the end of zero DKP, I'll have to check out how it works(or if) tonight. :dancing:
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Bilnick » Tue May 20, 2008 7:27 am

Naiin wrote:Me too, I like blind bidding, mainly because I find it distasteful when we have officers encouraging guildmembers to rig bids so they can "all get cheap lewts" in private chats.


I detest "arrangements" as well.

I have laid off bidding for others (and I think others have returned the favor) in the course of bidding. But I will not make some pre arranged agreement on who gets a loot first. Lame, lame, and lame.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Bilnick » Tue May 20, 2008 7:36 am

Stonecrush wrote:Problem with that koro is say an item drops I have 140 DKP... Everytime I see an item I want BOOM! I bid 100 DKP... So And So bid only 20. So now I got the item for 21 dkp.


The problem with your theory Stonecrush is if another person has the same brilliant idea you had and throws down 75 on everything he/she wants. Eventually you will pay 76 DKP for a 20 DKP item.

The way we used to do blind bidding was that everyone would send their bid in tells to the DKP officer. Highest tell won. If you bid 40 and the next highest bid was 4.....you paid 40.

A second place bid +5 DKP (or if the first place bid is less than that the lower of the 2) could be charged for the winner.

Blind bidding has its merits, but I mostly like the open auction system we have now. My biggest peeve is incremental bidding from 1-35 DKP. There is nothing wrong with starting bidding at 10 or 15 DKP if that is what you are willing to spend.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Bilnick » Tue May 20, 2008 7:52 am

Velocis wrote:i'm having a hard time understanding how the changes are supposed to make things easier and faster also


Well I had wanted to add a few things to make bidding/loot distribution faster. One idea was to have the minimum bid be 1 then only bids ending in 5 or 0 be allowed after that (1,5,10,15, etc). Another was to have a time limit. The zero minimum was the only one the other officers liked.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Velocis » Tue May 20, 2008 8:21 am

i can understand that. 5 dkp increments is a bit much when you are only getting 4-5 a raid. a lot of people want to hang onto as much as they can. i've been in guilds with a bid increment of 10, and that worked out fine. but we were also getting 20-30 dkp a raid so people had no problem bidding in increments because their dkp pool was "larger". how much time are we planning on saving with the 1dkp minimum?
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Aithzar » Tue May 20, 2008 9:54 am

Velocis wrote:i can understand that. 5 dkp increments is a bit much when you are only getting 4-5 a raid. a lot of people want to hang onto as much as they can. i've been in guilds with a bid increment of 10, and that worked out fine. but we were also getting 20-30 dkp a raid so people had no problem bidding in increments because their dkp pool was "larger". how much time are we planning on saving with the 1dkp minimum?


I actually see the opposite happening possibly. This change to the system could cause more downtime and hurt feelings. As others have said, you still have to go through the motions of bidding out an item even if you "think" it might go FFA. The other con of this for me is that 0 bids are suppose to be recorded in our DKP system. To someone who likes to know what gear people have, or the bidding history of a particular piece of gear. To someone who uses the DKP system to keep track of future purchases and those I have to bid against, items of a lower value will no longer be recorded if they don't go for 1dkp or higher. For me, this is why I am not onboard with this change. If loots will continue to be recorded even when FFA then I will have no problem with this new policy, but I doubt that will be done since you would have to be watching to make sure you see who looted what instead of getting your information from /gui with who won the auction. My hope is that Officers will re-evaluate their stance on this new policy in the coming week. Thanks.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Velocis » Tue May 20, 2008 10:24 am

i don't really see the change being able to accomplish much at all either. bid incrementing has its benefits but that's hard when you only get a few dkp per raid. it would be easier if we started giving members 5dkp an hour instead of 1. if people have a larger dkp pool they aren't worried about every single dkp point and are much more inclined to bid more freely imo.
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby ThinkInk » Tue May 20, 2008 10:30 am

I don't see how this is going to change anything. A "zero" bid just prevents the item from going "ffa". Should someone actually want something they would bid "1". Do you think it will do away from the1-2-3 bids? If you want something bid like you mean it!
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Re: NEW DKP Policy - end of Zero DKP bids

Postby Worff » Tue May 20, 2008 10:49 am

Naiin wrote:
Me too, I like blind bidding, mainly because I find it distasteful when we have officers encouraging guildmembers to rig bids so they can "all get cheap lewts" in private chats. I think that would end the zero bidding... AND speed the process... thus streamlining the process a great deal.


Dude you have issues... forget to take your medication? We do NOT encourage that. We know it happens, we don't have rules against it happening, but we in no way encourage it. Plus it's not rigging bids even when peeps do it from what I understand... there is still the chance someone outside the agreement circle can outbid on the item in question... I think what they agree upon is not bidding against each other, which happens all the time when there is NO prearranged agreement. Hell I think most of us have refrained from bidding or even backed out of a bid to see a friend get an item they've been wanting.

===================================================================

Ok back on track... 0 bids are a waste of time and they are annoying to the loot officer and raid leader too... selling it for 0 means it still has to be recorded as a sale, while FFA it does not... thus saving some time there from having to write it down or dig it out of the log later. FFA also absolves us from any responsibility on making sure a certain person gets that loot. Loot officer can release the corpse and move on to next objective. We don't care who gets the loot if it's FFA... it can be a guest even if its called in /rs rather than only in /gu. So, if you're really truly interested in an item, bid 1 and that 1 will secure it for you if no one else bids. If it's not worth 1 DKP to YOU .. it's not worth the trouble to process that sale to US... that's the bottom line.

As far as the idea of minimum incremental bids go... I'll never agree to that, DKP pools aren't big enough and people like to have the freedom to bid exactly what they want to bid... and I think that's fair.

Time limit on bidding per item: this I might agree with, at first glance it seems like a little too much pressure for some folks, but as long as it is a reasonable amount of time though I think it could work and remain fair.
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