DKP Policy Mod

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Moderator: Officers

How much penalty should a member be charged for their 1st time Misloot of an item?

According to the proposal - using Average of last 3 values as the "current" Value
15
45%
Use the Value the item went for the very last time it dropped
4
12%
According to the proposal but take a bid at the time of the drop and use that to determine value.
4
12%
NO CHANGE _ keep it with lowest value
10
30%
 
Total votes : 33

DKP Policy Mod

Postby Serano » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:52 pm

Officers are practically deadlocked on the following issue. We have for years have the DKP policy below (Since at least Summer of 04)

Current policy

4) Loot
g1) Accidental Looting: Defined: If you loot something that and officer didn’t tell you to loot in a channel or in a tell, i.e. Yournamehere loot X, or SOLD Yournamehere or X item is FFA you have accidentally ninja looted.
i) Mistakes happen and for a first time offense you will be docked 10 points or the lowest value that item or its equivalent has ever gone for, whichever total is higher.


Problem:
It was originally inked that way with the assumption that all Items would degrade in DKP value - and thus an item dropping now would always be worth less than it was worth before. Recently we have seen Last Bloods go up in value with an expansion. With no predictability on if Item worth will remain declining - it was considered that we should mod the policy to reflect that possibility.

Proposal

g1) Accidental Looting: Defined: If you loot something that and officer didn’t tell you to loot in a channel or in a tell, i.e. Yournamehere loot X, or SOLD Yournamehere or X item is FFA you have accidentally ninja looted.
i) Mistakes happen and for a first time offense you will be docked 10 points or the current value of that item or its equivalent value as determined by the officers, whichever total is higher.


Note the change would be that instead of the lowest value - the current value. We have not determined the best way to determine the current value. Either
1)the Average of the last 3 drops -
2)or the last value it went for
- or
3)should we bid the item at the time of and use that value to charge the person what the winning bidder would have paid for the item. This is with the assumption that the item would not actually be moved from the looter to the intended looter.

Also - it looks like our current policy is getting the addition that if the item is moved off of the mislooter to the intended winner of a "ghost" bid - then they will be fined only 10 DKP.


All of this really comes into play due to the change in the value of Last Bloods. Before SOF Last Bloods dropped in Value like any other item. Now with GM gear being more valuable - Last Bloods have went up in Value - and using the "lowest the item has gone for" would just not work. As I could go to a raid - ninja loot a Last blood and claim it was an accident - and then only pay 10 DKP for it which was the lowest it had dropped for.

One last note:

or the lowest value that item or its equivalent has ever gone for, whichever total is higher


It is always possible that an item could drop and be mis-looted that has never dropped for us before. In that case - the officers would decide its value according to its equivelent and charge someone the fair value based on our estimate. That could really be anything. When Azzail's Ring dropped the first time from Emporer - that was the best invisible slot we had ever had drop. I beat out Forsakers bid of 160 with my bid of 175. When Verok started dying his loot went for 163 - then 125 then 100. When We cleared VT loots in there went for 100s. So if something is ever mislooted on a first time drop the value could be astronomical. Or we could find something from Demi with similar stats and charge according to that. That is what we get paid the big bucks for.
Last edited by Serano on Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Bilnick » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:55 pm

What about no change?

OR no penalty for a first offense if the item is returned?
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Postby Serano » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:11 pm

DOH -
I did forget the no change.


Bilnick - the no penalty at all if it is returned is a COMPLETLY SEPARATE LINE. And unless you would like to make a member poll for the addition of no charge - that is not what is being voted on here.

And based on the vote in officers:
10 for neg 10 if returned
AND 1 for Full penalty if returned
and 2 for no charge if returned poll in officers

I beleieve the no chargee if returned matter has been decided - like I said - unless you would like to poll the general membership.

Regardless - this poll isn't dealing with that - it is dealing with the fine for items that ultimatly do not get returned.
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Postby Bilnick » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:33 pm

No change is good enough.

If you don't want to put no penalty option thats fine. Just a suggestion. Was curious to see if the members want to penalize for mistakes or are willing to forgive if a mistake is rectified. I am in the no harm no foul camp if a mistake is corrected.
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Postby Serano » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:10 pm

I understand Bilnick - I just am trying to show that the no penalty if it is corrected - which the current GMs have told us they won't do it again - just trying to show that that decision is separate from this poll.
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Postby Serano » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:29 pm

With over 70 raiders it is exciting to see under 25 that care about this issue.
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Postby Worff » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:49 pm

Maybe they don't see a choice they completely agree with to vote on. Also, most of our polls have under 40 votes because not near enough participate daily on the forums, might have to give this poll some time.
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