Page 1 of 1

Add Raid Days? (just getting a feel)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:45 pm
by Fenina
Some discussion going on regarding an increase in raid days and I would like to get a feel from those raiding if there is some desire for an additional raid day.

Current raids I believe are Tue / Thur 9pm est, Sat 8pm est.

Re: Add Raid Days? (just getting a feel)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:03 pm
by Jibvalde
some thing to think about right now there are 2 who lead raids me and Fyre .. Frogstew also leads might need some extra help , dont mind raiding more but really want to see one night a week were we have a real good turn out . what would help with that start earlier or raid on wednesday What ???

Re: Add Raid Days? (just getting a feel)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:10 am
by cydian1
A significant portion of the raid is east coast and leaves at around 11PM eastern. That is 8 west coast. It is difficult to have a viable raid force that is basically divided up into 2 sections with a relatively small time overlap.
Starting the raid earlier would definitely help the East Coast crowd, but then there is the problem of all the RL's (and we have some good ones) being west coast. Tough nut to crack if no one want to take on that VERY DEMANDING role. (I certianly do not)

An official start time of 9 eastern is just too late. Starting the raid On Time (and earlier) would also be a very large help. It is very disheartening to come to the raid on time and not move for an hour plus.
I realize that it is because people are not showing up on time (or at all) and am not sure how to deal with that in a guild that has basically no 'requirements' nor penalties. Bonus DKP is good, but I doubt it is much of a motivation for most. I could personally name some recent past members who left precisely because the raids never start on time, or usually not even close to on time.

I, like I think many of the players in TF, have come from the hard core raiding guild scenario(plus I left the game for over 3 years and was sucked back in by a personal friend and TF member) and are drawn to TF precisely because there are no raiding requirements, yet the guild does raid, sorta.

But without some structure, without some 'requirements', without the 'hard core' that makes a raiding guild move forward, we are going to have to continue raiding content a couple expansions old. Which I really don't mind, but many players, especially the ones who have not experienced the 'hard core' are going to use TF as grooming for those guilds. That's OK, but because TF is, in part, a training ground for other more hard core guilds it is vital that we have our own hard CORE. ... the ones who consistently make most raids and make them on time, the ones who understand their class role in a raid,the ones who can act within the confines of the particular raid yet make independent choices, the ones who raid consistently.

Then there is the issue with Raid Leaders. I think we have some good ones, but they are all west coast. We need some east coast RL's to start raids at a decent time

I think as well that designating one day a week as the 'major raid' night would help peeps structure their time to more likely be in attendance on, at least, that day.
I do not personally care what day that is, Tuesday or Thursday.
Adding another day, when we can't fill the raid on the days we raid now, I don't think would be productive. In fact it could well serve to to even more cause raid attendance issues by diluting the available players.
I personally think much of the mind set in TF works like this:
'well, raiding is not required. I want to raid, but I can pick and choose when that is.Lets see, I can pick Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, (Wednesday or Sunday if added). Hmm, this week I'll pick Tuesday, next week I'll pick Saturday, etc. It does not matter really which one I pick as any raid has the potential to be 'the big one' this week.
This dilutes the player base. Better, I think, to say yes, we raid all those days,but THIS DAY each week is the big one. We expect all players to make a hard effort to be there on that day because that is the day that TF will ADVANCE. That is the day that we will SHINE.That is the day when the TF CORE is needed and advancement is dependent on the CORE being there, and by the way,we sure would love YOU to be part of that core!!
Then make it clear that the raid starts at a certain time (7:30 PM eastern has my vote, but might be a viable choice until we get some EC RL's) and we will start with or without you. And put in a DKP penalty for those joining late. Not a bonus for those who are there on time. They are expected to be on time, but must pay the cost if they are late. For those who come late consistently or raid seldom, so what? Maybe they make a little less DKP,but they are still very welcome to raid and in fact we WANT them with us, but they are choosing to not be part of the hard core that defines what TF is. They are part of the army, just not the 'special forces'. Big deal? Maybe, maybe not. But for some,it will matter.

At any rate, that is my opinion and I am welcome to it. :? :)

Re: Add Raid Days? (just getting a feel)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:49 pm
by fyrebrand
you bring up some very awesome facts. i cant wait to see where this all goes. im west coast, and a RL, and im ok with starting the raid whenever the guild wants to, as i work from home and are usually always available

Re: Add Raid Days? (just getting a feel)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:00 pm
by Jimbop
I guess my vote is kind of biased in that I voted weekend raid since I can't raid Monday through Thursday due to work, but it really is a tough call at an overall standpoint. The differences in the time zones of the guild are tough to balance. I know historically changing to 8pm est start time hasn't done much to change the raid turnout, but not sure how something like that would work now with the current crew since my time playing has gone down. When I was playing though, one thing I saw typically during the weekday raids is us being able to do a few hits before having to drop off some of our raid force due to it being too late in the est time zone. Sometimes we could pick up reinforcements but other times we couldn't and the night would go downhill from there.

One suggestion would be to get a good grasp of how many people are in each time zone currently, like maybe taking a poll of how many are in each time zone. Something like that would give us a good gauge on if the raid times could be altered at all from where they currently reside.

Re: Add Raid Days? (just getting a feel)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:14 pm
by ThinkInk
cydian1 wrote:I, like I think many of the players in TF, have come from the hard core raiding guild scenario(plus I left the game for over 3 years and was sucked back in by a personal friend and TF member) and are drawn to TF precisely because there are no raiding requirements, yet the guild does raid, sorta.

But without some structure, without some 'requirements', without the 'hard core' that makes a raiding guild move forward, we are going to have to continue raiding content a couple expansions old. Which I really don't mind, but many players, especially the ones who have not experienced the 'hard core' are going to use TF as grooming for those guilds. That's OK, but because TF is, in part, a training ground for other more hard core guilds it is vital that we have our own hard CORE. ... the ones who consistently make most raids and make them on time, the ones who understand their class role in a raid,the ones who can act within the confines of the particular raid yet make independent choices, the ones who raid consistently.


First of all I think we should move this thread to a different forum. I have voted "other".

When I joined TF we were doing PoT. Most of the guild was already flagged but enough remained that there was a "waiting list" for every raid. I was fortunate to be in a class that would be piggied-in ahead of others but I did sit on the sidelines a couple of times.
During these above times TF progressed through the content post PoT without too much drama and we got used to beating all the events to which we were exposed to in short order. As it often happens we (TF) got an influx of players that wanted to accelerate the raiding pace we were on. They, together with the support of a few long-time TF members, wanted to transform TF into a more Raid oriented/Raid required guild.
I, for one, fought against the changes tooth and nail. Why, said I, should we change when things are going just great the way they are? I could not then, and can't now, participate in a "hard-core raiding schedule". What I missed was a fact that many are missing right now: During those days everyone that joined TF wanted to RAID! So they showed up for raids on every scheduled night, at the scheduled time! But when some started to imply that we become a more "structured" raiding guild, others exercised their rights of dissent by not attending raids.

The guild fell apart over a short period of time and here we are! We are now still a Family Guild but, we are no longer a Family Raiding Guild.

As much as I hate to admit it Cydian is right, we can't continue to raid and advance without a more structured set of requirements and leadership.
So I ask: Why add raiding days/nights when we can't fill the ones we already have? It has been many moons since the last waiting list occured and we should instead consider trimming raids to 2x per week instead. When everyone decides that they are ready to progress, when most are in the 78-80% raid attendance bracket and we once again have waiting lists for raids, then should be the time to discuss adding raid days. Until then we are just deluding ourselves and wasting everyone's time.

Re: Add Raid Days? (just getting a feel)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:32 pm
by eqaztun
why ot have a poll on what nights would be best for people to raid on then maybe we can find out when people can raid and such i know you guys have probably done it in the past but if you havent noticed we have gotten alot of newer players maybe this will help...