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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:22 pm
by Naiin
Worff wrote:
Naiin wrote:LOL... takes 15 mins..... not really worth 50k a year is it?


Ok you have 15 mins .. make a strat for Red Fang and put in hotkeys... GO /starts stopwatch {click}


NPs.. will post it in raid discussion after baby goes to bed...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:23 pm
by Jaella
Heh - if I KNEW that the whole raid force read the strats posted on the boards we wouldn't have that exessive strat typing I do for, say, OMM, but sadly, not everyone reads the boards, so there ya go :)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:40 pm
by Worff
Naiin wrote:NPs.. will post it in raid discussion after baby goes to bed...


Point is... and this quote helps point this out... is that peeps have things to do in RL :) like teh baby. Then, strats on alla or other sites aren't always how TF does it.. so copy-n-paste wont always work. Copy and paste wont assign MT/RT, puller, mezz teams, etc. Most people aren't computer wizards either, so it may take them more time to figure out where to paste it into the .ini file. Then there is strats we developed ourselves, as well as new targets no strats exist for. They are almost always posted in The War Room on forums, problem is all raiders do not read forums, and the ones that do may not remember all of them, soooo they must be given again during raid /nod.

Strats are just a part of it too. RL's handle raid invites, sometimes taskadds as well, they organize groups into best fit with who they have to choose from, choose target(s) if resources arent available for planned target(s), make sure everyone is where they need to be when they need to be there, make sure DKP is being handled, make sure raid is buffed, of course give out the strats, and do it all while getting spammed with tells :P I'm glad I dont lead raids hehe.

Bottom line is these things take time... I know we all hate waiting, but some element of this is unavoidable.. agreed tho we could probably fine-tune our procedures and squeeze a few more mins out of it I guess lol.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:09 pm
by Naiin
Its done BTW... 22 mins

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:13 pm
by Naiin
Jaella wrote:Heh - if I KNEW that the whole raid force read the strats posted on the boards we wouldn't have that exessive strat typing I do for, say, OMM, but sadly, not everyone reads the boards, so there ya go :)


If they cant take the time out of their day to READ (omfgzorz) then do they really WANT to play or ....? I know we are laid back style and we are not hard core raiders... BUT we are getting to content intended for ppl that PAY attention (he says being the one that nuked the dancer we were holding before Roley to med... nuked that ass down... forced the raid to start before ready... yeah I make mistakes... own up to them too)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:08 am
by Worff
Naiin wrote:If they cant take the time out of their day to READ (omfgzorz) then do they really WANT to play or ....? I know we are laid back style and we are not hard core raiders... BUT we are getting to content intended for ppl that PAY attention (he says being the one that nuked the dancer we were holding before Roley to med... nuked that ass down... forced the raid to start before ready... yeah I make mistakes... own up to them too)


I agree they SHOULD .. but they all dont. So still leaves us with explaining strats during raid hehe.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:20 am
by Naiin
Worff wrote:
Naiin wrote:If they cant take the time out of their day to READ (omfgzorz) then do they really WANT to play or ....? I know we are laid back style and we are not hard core raiders... BUT we are getting to content intended for ppl that PAY attention (he says being the one that nuked the dancer we were holding before Roley to med... nuked that ass down... forced the raid to start before ready... yeah I make mistakes... own up to them too)


I agree they SHOULD .. but they all dont. So still leaves us with explaining strats during raid hehe.



/boggle.... new events I can understand.... but anything in tier one demi need not have 30+ mins of strat explanation should it? Shouldn't we have all done it at least x2? I would have to seriously doubt a persons commitment to successful raiding that refuses to read a posted strat, I have an infant daughter, disabled wife, 50+ hour a week job, volunteer as a martial arts instructor on Saturdays, and attend my own martial arts classes during the week.... and still seem to raid 60% + attendance..... so I am not really a fan of "dont have the time".... time is made for what is important to oneself.... If raiding is not important, maybe one should step aside and allow a person who it is important to to have one's raid seat (although we cant seem to fill a raid in the past few weeks LOL)... ok enough of my ranting... time to return to lurking.... :help

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:29 am
by Worff
Naiin wrote:volunteer as a martial arts instructor on Saturdays, and attend my own martial arts classes during the week.


I only made it to 3rd KUP and I'll still kick your skinny ass :P

Dude I know what you mean, and I agree with most of what you're saying... but it's just not going to happen in reality with as many people as we have and the nature of TF's Family Guild that Raids motif.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:09 am
by Chadeaux
Waiting is a issue that isnt easy to solve, people afk .....dont read forums....takes a while to buff.........and strats for apps as well. I just take that as time to say hey to the family . I might even just get a beer, hit the bathroom or get high lol.

I for one like the strats and gives me time to fresh up on my hot keys, or send tells to apps getting to know them, but I like to chat :P

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:11 am
by Zyzzerzazz
Raid leading is easy compared to keeping a wizard alive on trash plowing....

But waiting on raids....

Yeap it sucks, I hate it. Infact its the #1 reason I started leading raids. I was sick of waiting and not being able to control the pace of the game I played. So I started leading and have not stoped since. That was 4 years ago :P

Now if TF had 40-50 raiders who all raided 90% of the time on the days we do raid - there would be less waiting.....thats the #1 cause for our long startup time.

We could assign Tank/Heal/Kite/DPS duties to specific people for the events ahead of time because we knew those peeps would be at the raid. Since we dont require raiding, we need to wait and see who logs in, and then assign the tasks. That takes time and yea waiting blows.

But since most of the concerns here are related to the pace of the raid - I will make changes to try and get the peeps moveing and the raid killing faster.

But should we not wait for LD peeps, peeps late who are making the run to us, that xtra tank, healer, or huge dps class?

Should we not repete strats briefly to peeps who are new to the event?

What about the grps? Should we just slap together the raid w/o getting a healer in each grp, or a dps grp/MT grp/off tank grps?

We dont want a new druid as the only healers for a grp of 3 SK's who are going to be kiteing mobs for 5 min.

/shrug

Lots of shit goes into make a raid work. For those of you who dont like waiting, I suggest asking officers / RL what you can do to help them along.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:39 am
by Horcrux
I always have a book nearby or some mindless homework left over that I work at during some of the longer strat explanations. It relieves the frustration for me because I still feel like I'm being constructive if, say, I'm listening to OMM strats for the 10th time. Now, reading or doing homework is not a good idea during an event, or during strats for a new event, but for an event that you've done multiple times its a nice way to not get frustrated.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:20 pm
by Naiin
zyzzerzazz wrote:Lots of shit goes into make a raid work. For those of you who dont like waiting, I suggest asking officers / RL what you can do to help them along.


Dont mind waiting on group arrangments, dont mind buffing till Im supah aggro-biotch, dont mind having to wait for events to be requested/tasks to be gotten, invites to be made to several folks/groups... dont mind coth chains, hell I dont mind RLs and others to try to develope a strat on unfamiliar ground/events (loved Severin btw, good choice for low numbers even though we got pwnd)... just dont like hella strat discussion on old hack events... how do I help a strat giver not be so "wordy"? (dont think I can w/o say "Hey, you are kinda wordy" which is what I have been trying to say all along) .... just my opinion also :)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:59 pm
by Jimbop
If it's an event we've done dozens of times over, I'd say we should do enough of a strat to say who's doing what, but explanations past that should be just taken as a given, but to let people in the raid know that if they have a question about an event, he or she should get with an officer or an experienced raid veteran in their class to find out what to do for that particular hit.

As for what annoys me, I'd say it's more along the lines of not being able to make enough raids. Sometimes, like last week, I log on to the raid just for the raid to be done 15 minutes later. Some days it's better, some days it's worse. Either way, I'm generally lucky if I can make more than one raid stamp for a night. I know there's nothing the guild could do to fix this problem, as it's a personal issue. It kind of goes with my other minor annoyance in being able to have access to loot. Some things that are important, like the pet focus, are tough for me to get, as Redfang is either dead by the time I log in, or we're not attempting him that night. Again, nothing the guild could do to help with that as it's a personal thing.

I guess my only annoyance is I do still like raiding, and I can't raid like I would like to do because of work. Everything else about TF though I have no problem with. We manage to come up with decent strats, and take out our targets many times. We've been on a bit of a slide as of late, but I have no doubts it will pick back up, and we will get back to kicking ass and taking names. :spank

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:14 am
by Zyzzerzazz
Thanks for the input btw guys - even tho we may sound like we are pissing a moaning - its good constructive debate and IMO I have changes I am going to try and make to help us all have more enjoyment while raiding and me killing you all.

Serv was a fun fight I agree. The event is easy enough, meaning no crazy strats or emotes to repete and bla bla bla - so I say we have this thing down and farmed in a few weeks!

Serv is not some big progression mob that will have us break into new content - but take a look at his loots!

If we can get so good at killing him - we all can have the drops we want from him --- think Verok :P

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:27 am
by Ceruis
Real Life getting in the way is the biggest problem I have.....Only 1 raid point in a year!..... :help BTW, I'm not inactive raider....just not very active! :banana