Melle Classes

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Postby Conan » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:36 pm

I'm working on my gear and aa's because:

I Want To Own Someone :spank
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Postby rsix » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:15 pm

The tank order I would use in a perfect world on a raid with all gear being equal.

MT = Warrior (better long term mitigation)
Ramp = SK (self heals)

As for the pallies; I've never understood anyone using a pally as a tank in a raid for any purpose other than off tanking when 4+ mobs need to be TM'd or for the plow. Just because they are capable, does not mean that they should be.... If you have a bunch of WAR / SK in the zone within 500hp and 100AC of the best equipped pally in raid, use them first. The best use for pallys on raids, and many will disagree I'm sure, are for group heals, spot heals, and cures.

Now, a Paladin tank in a group situation is hard to beat.
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Postby Angyish » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:41 pm

I led the cursed hit on saturday, probably one of the harder hits i've seen TF do.

I had waystin and brikksx be the tanks with waystin as MA and brikksx as SA.

Here's why. GRanted brikks kicks everyone in this guild is the balls for HP and AC.....well besides emerald but lets not go there.

But the way i see it the cursed comes in unslowed uncrippled and angry as all piss. waystin hits the rage disc and blocks every hit that comes his way and hits back, possibly procing hate. heal chain on him he's fine at 8.x hp. brikksx would get pounded for 18 seconds while shamans tried to slow and cripple the cursed.

now granted sk's can self heal. but channeling in a hybrid without the channeling AA's means jack shit when the mob bashes you for 300+ damage and triples for 800+. and since the biggest shadowknight lifetap out there pre oow is for like 494 even on a critcal heal on a critical blast its only like 2k heal. now thats a nice chunt of HP.
Unfortuntunatly, there's like barely a chance for it to channel becuase of the long cast time.

I put brikksx as the SA becuase of snap agro. waystin dies someone has to grab agro in a damn hurry. personally i think nothing works better then a succesful taunt and an 8k harm touch. =P.

pallies are good for agro too, and basically are interchangable with sk's for raid tanking, but i'd rather use them for tming. as a TM i've seen my mobs die and have pallies who have been tming their mob longer and their's haven't hit 70% hp.

i'd rather see those sk's put their damage into the boss mob with the cleric heal chain running out of mana, rather then see them trying to kill off adds and seeing pallies do dps. unless of course we have undead in which case wru holyforge.

just my 2 cents.
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Postby Zyzzerzazz » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:42 pm

pallys get heals also ( not taps ) and i beleive can generate the fastest aggro generation on the planet. Fastest being most aggro in the shortest time within the tank calsses.

Also, Pallys can crit heals, and crit grp heals...and fuck, they can rez.

LOL...ALL the classes are equal in terms of what they are designed for.

I beleive pallys are made for emergency tanking when a caster is being beat on.

Hence defenders.

SK and pally, i think tank just the same in terms of mitigation and utility.

SK just do more damage, and Pallys heal more damage. Take your pick..

Oh and if the Raid mob is undead...lol Hello aggro~
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hmm

Postby bill » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:20 pm

The best use for pallys on raids, and many will disagree I'm sure, are for group heals, spot heals, and cures.


How about rezzing the raid when Sanctus Seru crashed.

As for fastest aggro generation....With Waystin I can get 1 proc per swing...2 weapons, 2 procs per weapon....

I mean, if we want theoretical fastest aggro, In one round, I bet my warrior can accumulate more aggro short of say harm touch.

Unfortunately, that would be the perfect round which is less often than most.

Hmm, if I get a double attack on each swing for 4 swings total, with 1 hate proc each, that's 700x2 and 600x2. That's 2600 hate in 4 swings. Not including incite which is another 400. So 3k hate w/ incite, 4 swings.
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Postby nazar » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:27 pm

hey nazar is a pimp tank!!..he has a ability at lvl 70 so he takes 50% of the dmg dealt to him :banana ..granted it only lasts a minute or whatever...or ability that takes 1/2 spell damage..or 1/2 hate..or my preference 50% more dmg..conclusion= nazar owns waystin :jester
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gah

Postby Luthe » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:30 pm

damn nazar stop being a board whore and log in i want my damn ring ~
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Postby Goofydoofy » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:43 pm

Thanks for the information. Seeing as I know little about other classes, I am trying to learn the best places for the classes I have at hand. Since we are moving into higher content, this all comes into play and is something I need to know.
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Postby Bilnick » Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:26 pm

rsix wrote:If you have a bunch of WAR / SK in the zone within 500hp and 100AC of the best equipped pally in raid, use them first. The best use for pallys on raids, and many will disagree I'm sure, are for group heals, spot heals, and cures.

Now, a Paladin tank in a group situation is hard to beat.


This pretty much sums it up from my perspective. I have been rampage tank on many Ssra hits lately. I have no problem doing this, but if I had the RGC spell (I do not atm) having someone who can cast RGC getting beat on instead of casting said spell is not the best idea, especially if there is another warrior or SK who is capable. Also remember that if a cleric or healer goes down during the fight, you want a pally to rez them rather than having a cleric jump out of the now shortened heal chain to battle rez. Paladins have more utility other than tanking in group or raid situation that even though they are equivalent to a SK in pure tanking ability, you would want a SK tanking over a Paladin.

As far as aggro generation goes, I would be interested in having an aggro "duel" with you sometime Waystin. A few weeks ago Chawp, Raythree (I think) and myself were in a Serano ring group and we were screwing around fighting for aggro. I was able to keep aggro, or at least ping-pong it back and forth without using any taunt, while the Warriors were allowed to taunt at will.
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Postby Serano » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:36 pm

well --- Zyzz is confusing raid mob tanking and exp group tanking. Clerics and chanters love the hell out of an exp group MT in a pally or sk. Cause the chanty can slow on pull and the tank get aggro so the cleric doesn't have to waste mana rezzing the puller (ranger) then the chanter after the fight.

HOWEVER the warriors with the AAs can nab that aggro exactly like a pally and an SK.

I still loves you zyzz. BUT Obviously I am with Bilnick and myty (who has a50s pally). Sks and pallys are bar none my plow tanks.


Warriors and SKs will always tank the bosses when it makes sence aggro and difficulty of the encounter in mind.
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Postby Rasputine » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:12 pm

Not to dis Angysih or anything but Brikksx would be 2nd to Higgilx. Granted he is Interruptings boxed tank - but he is by far the top warrior (12k+ HP - 2k+ AC) in the guild. Inter - you need to get a Magelo bro - its cheap.

With what we have now in the guild I am positive we will start steam rolling through area's we thought and still think we won't be able to.
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Postby raming1 » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:27 pm

i watched naz get 1 rounded by an ally dragon like 2 months ago, that will tell you what you can tank foolio )
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Rolling

Postby Goofydoofy » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:27 pm

Two things. Waystin has a Hategiver which pretty much owns as far as getting some argo. All you tanks need one and that is one of the basic reasons we keep killing XTC. AoW should also be farmed for Blade of Carnage, another argo producer.

As for rolling thru content, our reason for us not being a lot farther then we are now is a) We only raid 3 days a week and b) Nobody else seems to want to step up and lead any raids.

I only have time on the weekends to play this game. So my raids are going to be a general progression raid that I can research in advance. Such as a PoP God or some quest(s) people need done. Tuesdays and Thursdays seem to have some days open. I see nothing listed for tomorrow or this Thursday. We have the people so you guys who have the knowledge of other hits we haven't done yet, step up and lead them. Nobody is holding anybody back here. We NEED more people involved.

I like how Jahras tried to do the HoH trials but the triggers weren't up. I like how Invisus led a raid for a named in NC. I like how somebody led a raid in Tactics. We need more of this. I will GLADLY give up my Saturday raids in place of maybe some kind of sign up night. Everybody who wants to lead a raid posts and we go in order down the thread and each person takes a Saturday. I only starting leading Saturday raids because nobody else wanted to and it looked like it was going to die. I personally would like nothing more then to sit back and play the game without all the stress of leading a raid during the little time I get to play anymore.

So, everybody think about this and step up and post some raids in RAID forum with your ideas. Officers can get it on the calendar and we are GTG. 3 of the Saturdays for next month are set, but anything after that is open for now. If I dont see anything in the next couple weeks, I'll continue to do my thing.
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Postby nazar » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:58 am

such b/s..i can't die...
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Postby Serano » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:01 am

I have had exactly 5 people send me a tell saying they wanted to lead a raid in the last 10 days- and I directed them all to post for tommorows open tuesday raid. none of them did.
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