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Postby Goofydoofy » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:55 pm

If you have a Warrior, Shadow Knight and Pally with the same AC and Hit Points. Why would you use a Warrior? For that matter, why would use you a Warrior for anything unless that toon had the most AC or HPs?
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Postby Serano » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:03 pm

Warriors are the better choice for Main tanking raid mobs.


THey have a automatic 5% damage mitigaton as a warrior. The AAs a warrior has avail make for better Mitigation than knights.

Warriors also have Defencive disipline with adds 50% to mitigation for a period of time depending on level.

So unless your warriors are simply gimp - it is always best to have a warrior MT the raid mob. Non raid mobs - it is easier to have a knight tank - cause they can get aggro faster. The warrior gets pissed at this fact and will cry about tougher times LFG than knights.

HOWEVER in MPG - I would love to have a warrior tank if he can tank it.
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Postby Bilnick » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:04 pm

Warriors have better natural damage mitigation than a Knight, plus for raid mobs thay can use a defensive discipline that a Knight cannot, which will increase damage mitigation even further.

For holding aggro, there is no match to a Paladin or SK, because a warrior has to rely on weapon procs and the incite button to refresh. A Paladin can just chain stun a mob and pretty much lock aggro after 2-3 stuns.

For raid mobs that proc a stun, or aggro reduction spell, a Knight is the preferred raid tank. Lord Inquisitor Seru is an example that comes to mind.

For a Paladin or SK to have equal HP and AC he or she has to be relatively better geared to equal a warrior. A warrior ornate breastplate for instance has more hp and AC than the Paladin or SK version.
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ok

Postby bill » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:07 pm

Warriors get an automatic 5% melee mitigation. Knights do not.

So when you hear that warrior's HP, add 5% in your head.

Or, when the named mob runs up and we click defensive, that's 35% mitigation. On top of our automatic 5% and say, combat stability 3...

35% + 5% + 10%(is that CS3 or is it 15%?)...50% mitigation on incoming dps?

That's every 8minutes. We also get our auto-riposte discs and even a self procing rune disc.

Other than mitigation we don't have much utility. I can't always get as much snap aggro as I like, but in long fights, no one accumulates more aggro than a hate-proc wielding warrior. In equal gear anyhow.
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Postby nazar » Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:02 pm

hah why am i always tanking then! :sad:..and the whole knight utility list..kinda forgot off hand wut sibrius was life tapping for? like 1.2 self tap..and he crit self life tap heals alot..and after u use that you use a group life tap that crits for maybe idk 500? then he has a lifetap on his weapon that also life tap crit heals alot.i kinda think if ur chaining these spells like i ussually do it pretty much makes up for all the leet defensive skills that a warriar gets..but takes a toll on ur fingers clicking too much.
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Information

Postby Goofydoofy » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:09 am

OK, a Warrior can mitigate damage. How long does the defense thing last when started? Also, Pallys and Knights seem to be able to self heal. Does this not work kinda like mitigating damage?
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Postby Serano » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:48 am

with higher levels and AAs SKs make superior tanks for some content - like Luclin than they did when luclin was level 60 caped.
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Postby Nistari » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:10 am

An SK, Pally, & Warrior who is on equal level with equal gear, a Warrior is your choice to tank a raid mob.

It is a crime to chose an SK / Pally over a Warrior.

If you have a GoD / OoW gear SK / Pally who is lvl 70 with hundreds of AA tanking a mob in Luclin or maybe even PoP, well then duh!

Hell, a freaking GoD / OoW geared Ranger could tank a Luclin raid mob.

That is an unfair comparison.
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Postby chawpchawp » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:33 am

aye, I have to say if the comparison is between say me and brikksx, well just check teh magelos lol. We don't have any wars with that kinda gear, so therefore, yes he tanks bettah.
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Postby Dealing » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:37 am

I've always said its not about the gear its about the playa. But Gear is also important now with mobs that hit fo 2 to 3k . IMO not because I play one but because I know the class a warrior is a better tank for a raid mob then a hybrid because of what everyone else said. Defensive lasts around 2 or 3 minutes (I think been awhile since I used it). For XP groupage yes a hybrid is better because of the snap aggro. But in XP groups normally once I have aggro I dont loose it unless a caster a) over nukes or b) If I get lazy and forget to taunt/incite. Not saying hybrids dont have a place tanking raid mobs but for long fights (like Cursed) Warrior > then Hybrid for the mitigation factor (means the heal chain(s) can be a tad slower which saves mana). I am all for using what is available but with warriors having the ability to generate the hate with added augs or hate proc weapons. I just dont see Y not use them for what we are meant for.
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hehe

Postby bill » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:04 pm

yeah, main point:

EQUAL GEAR / EQUAL LVL

focus folks ;)
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Summary

Postby Goofydoofy » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:13 pm

OK, to summarize, I am basically seeing this:

Warriors are better for raid mobs because they can mitigate damage better then knights or pallys.

Yet, pallys and knights can do some sort of self healing which to me would be a type of damage mitigation in itself.

So we are clear, I am talking classes with the same hit points, ac and same amount of AAs all used for whatever the hell those classes can use them to tank better. Lets say 100-150 AAs.

Are there any other factors other than damage mitigation? Do any of them have spell resists or stun resists or anything like that which factor in?

Argo is not a concern here. Since the MT should be doing nothing but smacking the mob until assist is called, argo should not be a big factor on a raid mob. I'm hoping people know how NOT to steal argo when we are raiding.
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hmm

Postby bill » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:47 pm

not sure but typically warriors get 1/2 lvl bonus to MR. Not sure on hybrids on that.
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Postby Serano » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:29 pm

well - dont count on a pally self healing while tanking the boss. count on an SK to do that with taps tho. A pally can heal\ but it is not reliable while tanking a raid mob.

SO Warrior is your tank of choice - gear ac and HP being equal.

But on a luclin and some pop mobs a 65 plus SK is a viable tank. well so is a pally - but silly to have a pally tanking a mob when you have perfectly good SKs or warriors around. YOu want that pally doing group heals and RGC.
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Postby nazar » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:29 pm

lets state the obvious..no shit a time,oow,oow geared sk with 470 aa's is going to own a pre ep warriar..and no doubt a warriar with the same aa's and gears is going to OWN the sk
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